question about allan wells training

[Youngy]

In my opinion there is no alternative to speedball. Mainly because it is also about rhythm, timing & balance. Hitting through the ball means there’s no resistance. So seeking alternatives like ‘cycling the hands’, swinging dumbells or punching a heavy bag etc, does not have the same effect and is probably counter-productive compared to the benefits of the speedball.

6 x 3 mins with a 1 min rest in between reps. Allows you to recover - but not fully, so your body goes into debt for the next 3 min rep. Hence my reference in an earlier post to 23 mins. 6 x 3 mins with 1 min rest x 5.

I believe Allan Wells imports speedballs from Australia on a regular basis, so he definitely still uses them in some capacity and encourages others to do so.

[nycjay01]

@Youngy

In my opinion there is no alternative to speedball. Mainly because it is also about rhythm, timing & balance. Hitting through the ball means there’s no resistance. So seeking alternatives like ‘cycling the hands’, swinging dumbells or punching a heavy bag etc, does not have the same effect and is probably counter-productive compared to the benefits of the speedball.

6 x 3 mins with a 1 min rest in between reps. Allows you to recover - but not fully, so your body goes into debt for the next 3 min rep. Hence my reference in an earlier post to 23 mins. 6 x 3 mins with 1 min rest x 5.

I believe Allan Wells imports speedballs from Australia on a regular basis, so he definitely still uses them in some capacity and encourages others to do so.

I’ll have to try it and see if it works. Although I am going to look like a total spaz doing it the first few times LOL

[Senri]

speedball.

[nycjay01]

Since were on the topic of Allan Wells, here is a good vintage clip of Ben running against Allan…

Enjoy.

http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=rpLaeh5RTMY

[glimpse_2]

What is Allan Wells PB in the 100m?

[adonail]

@glimpse_2

What is Allan Wells PB in the 100m?

10.11/100m

[Youngy]

The 10.11 was achieved in Moscow at the age of 28.

Allan didn’t break 11 sec until he was 24 and started training under Wilson Young in 1976. He got down to 10.3 shape before he left Young (no relation btw. :D) following a difference of opinion and was self trained from about 1978 onwards.

I know Jim Bradley tried to get Allan & Wilson back together at one stage but the split was pretty fiery from what Jim has told me.

10.11 was the British record for 6 years until Linford Christie broke it in 1986.

Wells was not a naturally gifted sprinter but worked extremly hard and was relentless in his pursuit of getting faster. 10.11 for a bloke who had not broken 11s by the time he was 24 is as impressive improvement as one could imagine…and hence why I follow some of his methods.

[glimpse_2]

Hey i wouldn’t mind running 10.11 in the 100m

[mortac8]

@Youngy

Wells was not a naturally gifted sprinter but worked extremly hard and was relentless in his pursuit of getting faster. 10.11 for a bloke who had not broken 11s by the time he was 24 is as impressive improvement as one could imagine…and hence why I follow some of his methods.

One of my friends who is a local coach had similar improvements in that age range (ended up USA national level but not world level). Not that dissimilar to Wells visually but obviously very dissimilar training. Wells’ training is interesting but I still don’t totally buy into it. Maybe when he coaches the UK to total world dominance using his methods…

[eroszag]

Is there a place where we can get Bradley book?

[nycjay01]

@mortac8

One of my friends who is a local coach had similar improvements in that age range (ended up USA national level but not world level). Not that dissimilar to Wells visually but obviously very dissimilar training. Wells’ training is interesting but I still don’t totally buy into it. Maybe when he coaches the UK to total world dominance using his methods…

Do you know what he did to get faster? That’s a big jump that late in the game…

[nycjay01]

I know some people HIGLY doubt the effects of speed bag training on sprinting. As for my thoughts, I would have to try it and see. It sounds like fun plus I’ve always thought that some boxing training would not be bad for a sprinters conditioning (note to all the arm chair sports scientists, please dont put a lab coat on and ask me for research Its just a gut instinct)

Any way here is some food for thought:

Something Youngy wrote in his previous post about speed bag training caught my eye. He wrote that you should get 4.5 hits per second. 4.5 is the same number of movements that a quality sprinter should be able to do in 1 sec. Im wondering if the learning of that rythym over time can get the body used moving at 4.5x /sec??? I know it sounds crazy but check the articles below…

============================================================================

http://www.speedbagforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1935

Personally, I am also very interested in the auditory aspects of the rhythmic “beat” of the bag, and it’s effect on human physiology. Who among us isn’t as fascinated with the “bag beat” as much as the act of punching?

So are a lot of others, especially in the field of music therapy, and in the field called Psychoacoustics

Basically, our auditory system (ears) allow our brain to “entrain” or - lock into - a rhythm. If that rhythm is repetitive and long enough, our heart and brainwaves will sync to it. The shamans of old did it with a repetitive drum beat to elicit trance. why not the repetitive bag beat?

if that concept interests you, or might have you look at your speed bag workouts in a different way, read several of the links below:

sonic entrainment

Rhythmic entrainment institute

Rhythmic Auditory Stimulation (RAS) (* look through the 17 pages…)

Nueroscience of Rhythm (* note the section on neurologic rehabilitation in this article…)

Repetitive Bilateral Arm Training With Rhythmic Auditory Cueing (RAS)…

Yes, my friends there really IS power in that repetitive bag beat.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

and just for fun, try this for the Sports Reading Room…

Great topic. I love to hear about how people modify their workouts to focus on various physiological effects, and I also love to hear about people’s “experience of punching” as much as their developing skills.

---

[mortac8]

@nycjay01

Do you know what he did to get faster? That’s a big jump that late in the game…

yea. went from a speed based program in college where he ran like 11.00 to a total intensive tempo program in grad school where he got down to 10.2x wind legal. seriously

[vedette]

@mortac8

yea. went from a speed based program in college where he ran like 11.00 to a total intensive tempo program in grad school where he got down to 10.2x wind legal. seriously

Hey, isn’t “intensive tempo” a dirty word around here? Actually, I am curious about what intensive tempo consists of in the context of 100-meter running.

[Stikki]

@nycjay01

Something Youngy wrote in his previous post about speed bag training caught my eye. He wrote that you should get 4.5 hits per second. 4.5 is the same number of movements that a quality sprinter should be able to do in 1 sec. Im wondering if the learning of that rythym over time can get the body used moving at 4.5x /sec?

Isn’t the counter to this that any decently quick person can cycle their legs 4.5/sec without resistance, it’s the transfer of force during super short ground contact times that separates the great from good?

[pakewi]

@nycjay01

Any way here is some food for thought:

Something Youngy wrote in his previous post about speed bag training caught my eye. He wrote that you should get 4.5 hits per second. 4.5 is the same number of movements that a quality sprinter should be able to do in 1 sec. Im wondering if the learning of that rythym over time can get the body used moving at 4.5x /sec?

Quotes from:
Margot Wells,“THE ALLAN WELLS BOOK OF SPRINTING”

"The purpose of hitting the ball is to gain upper body strength and at the same time to improve:

• [b]concentration
• cross body coordination[/b]
• maximum relaxation while working flat out."

And:

“As the ball moves extremely fast,the brain has to send messages to the muscles much faster than it would have to during a race and so when the athlete comes to race,the body has already been conditioned to move at speed.”

“Sessions done on the ball vary in time and number,but the athlete must try to hit the ball faster each time”

Hope this helps.

[mortac8]

@vedette

Hey, isn’t “intensive tempo” a dirty word around here? Actually, I am curious about what intensive tempo consists of in the context of 100-meter running.

Well my friend termed it “a lot of overdistance work” which upon further questioning equated to a lot of intensive tempo work. Some typical stuff such as 6x400, 12x200, not as much of a focus on lifting, etc. I saw him a few days ago and said “hey when are you gonna teach me how to run 10.2”. His reply was “if I knew how to do it, I’d having everyone doing it”…quite an interesting comment I thought.

As an aside, not only did Alan Wells drop about a second in the 100m after he was 23 or 24 but he also eliminated nearly all weight lifting during that period. From my recollection of all the literature about him, he was originally like a 24’ long jumper who put a good deal of focus on speed and weights. He got away from most of the speed and weights and proceeded to go -.9 or so in the 100…how 'bout that?!

[eroszag]

Other interesting issue for the rithmic part…could there be alternatives to the speedball?Is important to hit something for the rythm, and not just moving like shadow boxing?It intrigues me , but would have to try…as always, the time to try everything is missing.

[nycjay01]

@pakewi

Quotes from:
Margot Wells,“THE ALLAN WELLS BOOK OF SPRINTING”

"The purpose of hitting the ball is to gain upper body strength and at the same time to improve:

• [b]concentration
• cross body coordination[/b]
• maximum relaxation while working flat out."

And:

“As the ball moves extremely fast,the brain has to send messages to the muscles much faster than it would have to during a race and so when the athlete comes to race,the body has already been conditioned to move at speed.”

“Sessions done on the ball vary in time and number,but the athlete must try to hit the ball faster each time”

Hope this helps.

Hmmm interesting. Thanks Pakewi!!!

I am going to wear a HR monitor and post how high my HR gets. Even if the speed bag thing does nothing for my running, maybe it can help me blow off some steam at the end of the day

[Youngy]

Jim’ Bradley’s theories on speedball (speedbag in USA) training for sprinters does include the notion that hitting the ball in excess of 4.5 hits per second (some up to 6 hits per second) allows the body to get use to driving the muscles in the shoulder girdle (especially the back) in a cycling motion that can be translated to the track.

The only reason there is no scientific evidence to support Jim’s training methodology, is that no university or institute has conducted an actual scientific test.

The anecdotal evidence though is irrefutable, as Bradley himself improved dozens of athletes, firstly in Scotland in the `1960’s to 1971 and later in Australia from 1988 through the 2000 and is the most successful coach in professional running history (Australia/Scotland).

His first athlete who Jim experimented on with his theories (1957 to 1966) couldn’t break 11s (He ran 11.4 in an amateur club meet when Jim first saw him run) for 100 yards, but over a 9 year period, improved every year until he could cover the distance in 9.4s. The same athlete then moved to Australia and amazed the Aussies with Gift wins off scratch, covering the 130 yard distance in around 12.1s.

Wilson Young (under Jim Bradley) improved considerably, winning the famous Powderhall New Year Sprint in 1971 before embarking on a successful coaching career, mainly in the professionnal ranks, but later proved highly successful in the amateurs with runners like Allan Wells and Drew McMaster (10.34/20.77).

Jim, btw, is a great admirer of Charlie’s track program with the emphasis on short distances of 60’s and 80’s at high intensity; and whilst not exactly the same, there are subtle similarities, especially the during the comp & taper phase.

One other point, anyone adopting the use of speedball for the first time needs to be patient. The ability to get the ball up to over the 300 hits per 3 min round (600 hits for both hands) to where the benefits start to materialise takes time.