Check your box.
Also I’d like to mention that my joints are back much prefer OL’s + single-leg lifts than squatting over 500 lbs.! I’ve had more than enough of maximal loading in the squat and I’m happy that most of that is behind me! I can see why Charlie didn’t go under 6RM, it’s too taxing and just plain risky.
I’m sorry, but now you’re just being combative. For one, I’ve done two seasons of sprinting. Two, I haven’t been using unilateral lifts for very long (maybe 2 months of total training time). And three, I knocked a half a second off my 100M and nearly 4 seconds off my 400M last season, all without having ready access ot a real gym or a track. If I had access to a track, I’d be doing more speed work.
Just because I’m a poor college student, live in Alaska, and can’t get get to a track until 1-2 months before my season starts doesn’t mean my arguments don’t speak for themselves.
I hope James share his thoughts.
Thats my point RJ, I DONT PUSH THE SINGLE LEG LIFTS BECAUSE ITS DUMB. Im sure the athlete could have done more but who cares.
Man, I’m done here. It’s like talking to a brick wall.
Your right, im debating with a guy who train in his attic and making comments like this > those split squat numbers are weak. I’ve done 210 for sets of 5 and I’ve never squatted more than 320 x 8 and 335 x 5.
In one sentence you say not to load single leg lifts heavy and when I agree you called my athlete weak.
Okay, apparently I’m bad at walking away from things.
I said you don’t need to do a 1RM or anything close to it. 5 reps is not too heavily loaded, especially over a few sets.
And the purpose of the comparison to your athlete was to show that big squat numbers are not required for explosiveness. Sure, your athlete could squat nearly 500 lbs, but could he SLJ 3.1m? I know I’ve never squatted over 400 lbs (@ a BW of 200+) but I’ve SLJed over 10’ on many occasions.
The only point I’ve been trying to make here is that unilateral lifts are a solid alternative to bilateral lifts in terms of strength work. I was using my weak squat, strong unilateral lifts, and SLJ to demonstrate that.
Somehow I managed to increase my SLJ from 8’8" to 10’2" with a crappy squat. That’s all I want to say.
It’s all good RJ…
How about specificity of movements RJ? You obviously emphasize unilateral work and would thus see improvments in comparable movements, ex. SLJ.
Your crappy squat could have been not due to strength, but lack of motivation/whatever to trained heavily bilaterally.
The underlying factor here is general leg power. If you develop it via unilateral work, then that is great, but some of the reasons you mentioned as to the negatives of bilateral, squat, and the positives of unilater, BSS, are relatively unfounded.
Loading of the back is not a limiting factor in the back squat.
If the largest benefit of BSSs is due to specifity, and we break down how the specificity is considered, then you see that increase stabilization requirements are the key to this ‘greater’ specificity.
Unfortunately one tends to forget that while sprinting is a unilateral movement, forward inertia provides much of the stabilization requirements for running. Think about riding a bike vs. just sitting on one. Which is more easily balanced?
EDIT: My grammar sucks. Deal.
No. Just, no. Almost everything in this post is wrong.
For one, an SLJ is a standing long jump, which is a general test of leg and hip power and is most certainly bilateral. Since it’s bilateral, it’s definitely not specific to doing unilateral lifts. At this point I should probably ignore you, but I’ll press on.
Two, I’ve been training the squat far longer than I’ve trained unilateral movements, but my lower back has always held me back. Same for the DL. It’s not due to motivation, it’s due to the nature of the movement. You can’t argue with it, the squat puts a higher emphasis on the spinal extensors and unilateral lifts put more emphasis on the legs.
Three, the whole point I’ve been trying to make is that it’s all about leg power. And all of the examples of pros and cons I gave were completely solid. I don’t know how you could say otherwise.
I said that unilateral loading allows more of a load on the working leg, puts less load on the trunk, engages the hip rotators, abductors, and adductors, and uses less overall muscle mass so CNS drain isn’t as high. There is nothing wrong with any of those statements.
And the specificity of unilateral lifts is not found in balance and I never claimed it was. The specificity is found in the ability to load the muscles of each leg more heavily than one is capable of doing in a bilateral lift. The other benefit is increased hip muscle activation. I never said anything about balance.
Please, just read what I’ve written and I wouldn’t need to keep rehashing this. I’ve laid out my case and I’ve done it quite well. All the problems at this point are due to a lack of careful reading and an abundance of misunderstanding.
Must say, everything you’ve said does make sense…
To be fair, for a lot of people, including myself, who have quite small joints/ inserts, I have always wondered whether the back pain I often suffer from bilateral squats was entirely necessary. The only time I can probably say bilateral squats would be more effective in the strength needed for handling power movements like the clean which are probably the best, or second best after snatch, for starts, no? I’m just going by popular theory…not a sports scientist 
but what you say about the hip and leg load I have to agree with just as a matter of logic. It probably would take more patience for one’s ego as the weights being lifted will be comparatively less than it would on standard squats.
Major benefits in my eyes:
- hip strength
- posture (the torso can afford to be more erect which in turn is better for core, which surely counteracts the absence of extra strain from heavy bilateral squats?)
- what RJ said about individual leg hypertrophy and power, in the same way bounds and single leg hops help provide more power than double legged plyos (although bilateral plyos do have their place for general power)
the 4th point I am having trouble expressing exactly what I mean but those are my two cents on this matter anyway.
Exactly. The only time you really need squats (or front squats) is when you need to do lifts like the clean or snatch. I’d actually say that unilateral lifts are actually better for acceleration than OLY lifts too. Again, leg strength is leg strength, and unilateral lifts develop more leg strength than bilateral lifts.
The other points, yep, you’ve got it. I have to point out though that bilateral lifts and plyos generate more overall power, but single leg lifts and plyos generate more power per leg.
Your thoughts on belt squats?
Honestly, I really don’t have any. The back wouldn’t be a limiting factor, but there would still be the bilateral deficit to contend with and I’m fairly certain they’d be quad dominant. I wouldn’t use them over split squats, bulgarian squats, step ups, or lunges.
you bring up good points about the unilateral lifts…there is definitly less back involvment and more emphasis on the legs…asafa powell uses only unilateral lifts and olys…however many ways to get the job done…what unilateral lifts to you prefer…
rj24, I don’t disagree with everything you’ve said, but the general statements ‘the squat is limited by back strength’, and ‘building muscle size is better done with unilateral lifts’ are both dead wrong. Maybe you have a weak back, but you can correct this issue with core work, good mornings, straight leg deadlifts and better squat form. As far as hypertrophy, ask any bodybuilder, whose primary goal is always muscle size, and they will tell you that multijoint, bilateral lifts are far superior in building muscle mass. In regards to that, I disagree that muscle size is actually a primary goal in the weight room for a sprinter. Muscular strength does not have to be accompanied by hypertrophy, and in the case of a sprinter, would probably be better if it weren’t.
Dalton, I like Isometric split squats, isometric bulgarian split squats, single leg deadlifts, single leg hyperextensions, and single leg decline situps. There are tons of other lifts you could use, but I like these the best.
Star, the point is that sprinters don’t need a back that is as strong as their legs, and training to get on would be wasteful and probably lead to a slight excess of muscle in an area it doesn’t need to be. At all times (except in the blocks) during a sprinter’s race they are on one foot and the legs and hips are doing the work while the back merely supports the upper body and pelvis.
And I don’t care what bodybuilders say on the topic. Bodybuilders are a traditional bunch and their “nutritional” schedules skew results. On this topic though, the lunge has managed to remain a favorite among them.
The fact of the matter is that for many reasons (the bilateral deficit, core strength no longer being a limited factor, stumble reflex in split movements) the legs are able to develop more force individually when trained individually than they are when trained together. There are plenty of clearcut studies on the topic. More force being generated means higher levels of intramuscular tension. Higher levels of intramuscular tension means more protein breakdown. And more protein breakdown leads to more hypertrophy. It’s not really something you can argue.
Well, I guess their are the changes in endocrine profile that full body multi-joint lifts bring about, but sprinters already have a primary stimulus in the sprints.
And as for muscle size not being a goal, I’d have to disagree. Muscle strength is highly correlated (even within sprinters) with cross sectional area. Neural adaptations can only provide so much in strength gains. After that point, more muscle mass is needed. Why do you think all sprinters have impressive glute and hamstring musculature in relation to their frames? Hell, most have impressive overall muscular development.
And I just had this conversation with someone yesterday, but there is almost no time at which a sprinter would not benefit from more muscle in their glutes, hamstrings, or hip flexors.
Excuse me, I figured you meant single leg jump. Most people refer to a standing long jump as a broad jump.
Secondly, you are making assumptions that everyone is like you and that your experience is the same as others. Remember, when n=1, your assumption holds little credibility. The lumbar is not the limiting factor in a squat for everyone else.
If specificity of unilateral is not based on enhanced stability needs, then your other argument of increased activation are, at best, debatable. The amount of CNS drain is inherently applicable only to everything else done in training and to say that less CNS drain is better is just not a valid reason to do one exercise versus another. If there is increased ad & abductor activation involved in single leg movements, those improvements in intensity of activation (amplitude) can, and probably are, easily off set by a much lower loading ability. This was my contention in my last post which you ignored. If this is not the case, I would gladly prefer to be enlightened by a study that shows a comparison and results rather than just you saying “Wrong.” Which is hardly an intelligent way to discuss things. I know you have been having a rather heated argument here with tamfb, but please do not think everyone here is looking to have a childish war of words.
I’m not against single leg movements, but it is obviously a false statement to say that single leg movements are better at producing either strength or hypertrophy. If they were, they would form the base of training for weightlifters, powerlifters and bodybuilders (regardless of their diet). They don’t, they are auxilliary or supplementary if they are done at all.
More force being generated means higher levels of intramuscular tension. Higher levels of intramuscular tension means more protein breakdown. And more protein breakdown leads to more hypertrophy. It’s not really something you can argue.
It doesn’t need to be argued…it is obviously false on its face. If it were true, powerlifters and Oly lifters (who generate the highest intramuscular tensions in the gym) would have much larger muscles than bodybuilders, who don’t lift at the intensities that the weightlifters do. Look at a 205lb. weightlifter or Oly lifter compared to a 205lb. bodybuilder…nowhere near the hypertrophy. Your assumptions are way off base as to what generates not only hypertrophy, but limit strength as well.
Do you know many athletes that can single leg squat with 300-400lbs on their back, even with balance assist? I know a great many that can do it on two legs.
And as for muscle size not being a goal, I’d have to disagree. Muscle strength is highly correlated (even within sprinters) with cross sectional area. Neural adaptations can only provide so much in strength gains. After that point, more muscle mass is needed. Why do you think all sprinters have impressive glute and hamstring musculature in relation to their frames? Hell, most have impressive overall muscular development.
Simple comparison…Arnold vs Chuck Vogelpohl. Arnold has twice the mass in the legs, but nowhere near the strength Chuck does. I could give you hundreds of such comparisons, weight class to weight class. You are greatly underestimating the role of neural adaptions relating to strength, and overestimating the contributions of hypertrophy, not to mention the lack of consideration to the weight penalty that hypertrophy brings with it.