Hey CF, I remember you saying BJ didn’t care for longer tempo runs (300m+), do you see the value of having young developing athletes perform longer tempo runs (300-500m range) in gpp?
Sure it wasnt long SE runs of 300m?
Yes it was long SE. He did do 300s in tempo at times- like 7 x 300 with 100m walk between.
I do think at one time Ben was doing tempo work out to 300m.
Damn, that look tough with a 100m walk. I know PJ spoke about using longer tempo runs in gpp for example 3x600 or 3x800 to work the opposite side of the curve. Which phase did BJ perform the longer tempo runs, I would assume gpp or outdoor season when you had access to grass fields, I believe PJ crew performed the longer tempo work on the track.
Just to clarify, I’ve never used 3x800 or 3x600, but stuff like 800-700-600. As for 300s, we use to 5 x 300. All this on track, 200s we do either on grass or track.
The first time i used 600m with one of the guys, he was so afraid he did not sleep the night before, but after he ran it, he said “that’s all?”. However he slept very well the following night! 
My bad PJ, you did say 3reps and I assume 3x600 etc.
Ben did 7 x 300 in tempo into SPP2 and 3 of 1985 when he did a few 200s in comp but he didn’t go out that far in later years.
On the subject of longer tempo runs, below are simple tempo workouts from a NCAA school in the U.S.
Anaerobic Capacity
Intensive tempo
Volume Cut @ 70%
Pace Group 1 2 3
300m @ :49 :51.5 :58
300m @ :49 :51.5 :58
200m @ :30 :31.5 :33
200m @ :30 :31.5 :33
100m @ :14.5 :15 :15.5
100m @ :14.5 :15 :15.5
Recovery: 50-80m walk
Training Pace
Match up your projected time for the events listed below to determine the
training pace for your track endurance workout.
Group 1 (100m: 10.8-11.0, 200m: 22.0-22.3, 400m: 49.4-50.2)
Group 2 (100m: 11.3-11.4, 200m: 23.0-23.3, 400m: 51.0-52.8)
Group 3 (100m: 11.5-11.9, 200m: 23.6-24.3, 400m: 53.4-55.3)
Aerobic Capacity
Extensive Tempo
Volume Cut @ 70%
Pace Group 1 2 3
350m @ :59.5 :62.5 :65
350m @ :59.5 :62.5 :65
250m @ :39 :40.5 :42.5
250m @ :39 :40.5 :42.5
150m @ :22 :23 :24
150m @ :22 :23 :24
Recovery: 50-80m walk
So were these tempo 300’s done because BJ did more 200’s races that year and drop in the later years? Were these runs done on grass or track?
The :58 for group 3 for 300 doesn’t seem to correspond. Is that a misprint?
Also, what does “volume cut 70%” mean?
I would assume not, I copy and paste the above workouts.
Below is the speed workout for the int tempo week:
2 (5 x Hill runs) @ full
(steep grade)
Duration: 5-8 second bursts
Recovery: 2 minutes
OR
2 (5 x 25m) falling starts
Recovery: 2 minutes
Run were on grass inside lane one. Yes, Ben basically didn’t compete much in the 200 after 1985 as there was a severe financial penalty involved in straying from the 100m. Of course, if he’d recorded better times over the 200 (20.29), then it wouldn’t have been as bad. He used it from 86 on as a recovery race when he felt he wasn’t ready for the 100.
Why are the first tempo sessions called intensive?
I am curious what was the reason with the longer tempo runs with Gatlin and crew:
Tuesday
4 x 200m ( 28sec-3minutes recovery)- 8minutes rest- 4x200m (28 sec - 3minutes recovery)
Thursday
4 x 400meters ( 60 sec- 5 minutes recovery)
Saturday
6x300meters ( 42sec-53sec / 90sec recovery)- push ups 2 x 50, abdominals 2 x 50, calf raises
2 x 50, pull ups 4 x 4
I think the overall workout could be borderline ext/int tempo or maybe upper limits ext tempo…??
Was this for tempo or SE?
ext tempo.
Any ideas CF?
This may help a little,
I have a friend who is coached by one of the “crew” members, and he does a lot of stuff like this, especially in gpp. He showed me the stuff he was given to do over thanksgiving break and the volume was huge and the intensity looked much to high… none the less the program he runs for has really squandered great talent, many 47 high school guys have gone in and never come near that again. I have an idea as to why the length and intensity of these runs is what it is but I feel I am not at liberty to discuss that on these boards