I thought that Davan was referring to jumps and throws as well Mortac. As such, while the transference is not positive for the higher qualified athlete- (as we would suspect) it is for the lesser prepared.
Davan, the use of the charts, relative to our discussion that is comparing what Bondarchuk found vs what Pfaff has found cannot be intelligently discussed any further without knowing more about Pfaffs model of testing different exercises.
I don’t know enough about what Pfaff does to go much further with this.
The charts show no correlation for any level. It just goes 10.00 to 11.7 .
His highest qualified athletes in international competition were throwers (not only hammer). As far as sprinters and jumpers I don’t believe he coached any medalists at the level of the Olympics or World Championships.
I’m not going to go through page for page but if you take a look at the results on pages 94, 101, 103, 105, 111, and 112 you will notice a positive transference for the backward overhead throw.
But, as I stated, the positive transference is generally found in the results of the lower qualified athlete. We must, however, specify the event.
If you review page 118 and 119 you will find Bondarchuk’s breakdown of the backward shot throw to the various events.
We are talking about sprinting and the 100m specifically–that’s why I mentioned it going 10.00 to 11.7 and that’s what I mentioned in my question to you.
Of course there would be a correlation with throws.
This is useful information Ir400, thankyou.
I don’t think it’s wise, however, to consider the training as the sole factor leading to sports results when comparing the achievements (in the sprints or any other event) of humans from around the globe.
Davan, in post #31 in this thread you stated that Bondarchuk said the throw had no correlation in any event.
That is why I had no reason to think that you were referring only to sprints.
You responded to this, so I assumed you knew what I was talking about.
Throws will obviously correlate with throws… that’s a given.
Now that I understand that we are only discussing the sprints it seems there isn’t much point in discussing this any further.
I have no hesitation in leaving well enough alone and looking to those who have trained the most high level sprinters for insight.
Can you elaborate?
Without getting wildly off the topic of this thread, there are certain physiological/anatomical etc model characteristics (fiber percentage and distribution, lever lengths, tendon insertions, and on and on) that predispose one to have great potential in the various T&F events.
For this reason, we know that the training is not the only factor that contributes to what the worlds best athletes are attaining in international competition.
In other words no amount of sound training can make up for a lack of talent. Although sound training will help everyone improve.
These numbers are almost comical. My friend was a low 10 100m sprinter. Full-squatted 540. Had a 40+ vertical and could barely do one legged bounds. Even sprint bounds were painfull to watch. Its funny because I saw him blow out Randel Evans for the first 40m, blow out Warrick Dunn in an open 100m, and blow out most of the NCAA runners that year. I hope you guys are joking.
Random thoughts:
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All the hammer throwers use OHB as tests
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that’s not the case among sprinters, and not all USSR sprinters used to test it.
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The hammer throw chart would include all performers ranging from 80m to 86m (basially all time world best performers), the 100m chart excludes sub 10 sprinters, a club which has +50 members.
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As far as i know, more than 10 sub10 sprinters tried OHB, with results ranging from 12 to 19m…i’m sure these results would mess up the corelation Bondarchuk finds.
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Training systems influence a lot these test results. Results i have for eastern female sprinters/hurdlers from '80s/'90s are equivalent to those of the 2 sub10 sprinters i’m coaching. I don’t care much because they run over 1sec faster at 100m which is my main concern. I have no doubt that these guys could throw 18m, but which room would be left to sprint development with this kind of training?
I agree with everything, which is what I was trying to get at with my posts. Why make charts/stats on correlation when it is so dependent on your training system and the exercises and methods you incorporate. There has also never been a 10.00 Soviet sprinter, so I wonder where that number comes from ;).
What have Olu and Pognon done in the OHB throw, if you know?
Both over 14m with 7kg implement and over 17m with 4kg… Please don’t tell me what it worth at 100m! 
I don’t think anyone thinks it will show a 100% direct result in the 100m necessarily, especially if it is not a common component in your training program. But you can’t argue with the correlation Pfaff has noted, I mean at one point he had 5 sub10 guys in his garage at once.
What it is good at is training power and subsequently showing an increase in power via the test.
What a lot of folks may not be getting regarding Pfaff’s correlation is, unlike most, he comes from not only a sprint background but a jumper, multi-eventer, and throws background. He has coached and still is coaching people in various disciplines and it seems that influences his system. For what it is worth he coached this years World Champion in Pole Vault of all things.
My posts didn’t argue with Dan’s findings. I borrowed the first sentence of my point 5 from one of his quotes, by the way.
Cool. Wasn’t intending to say your points were disagreeing with Dan’s just stating what he has told me, what I have heard him say, etc.