Very interesting!
Do you know North Europe training for Jumpers?
Their athletes are really stronger!
My best is 19.40m got that last week…
I am abit of a freak when it comes to these tests though 
3.27 standing long jump.
My coach uses them as tests after every cycle. He expects the standing results to be good early on… then the runnung approach results to really improve as we get further into the programme.
Charlie and others,
In Bondarchuk’s new text he provides numerous tables that indicate the transference of various jumps, bounds, sprints, throws, and lifts to differing T&F disciplines.
He compiled this data by sending out surveys to various Soviet National team coaches during the 80s. The coaches filled out the surveys based upon their known and tested results of their athletes and all the data was collected from the master of sport ranking or higher.
Very useful material.
It’s interesting but not always translatable over groups. IE, all Soviet coaches used it so stats were relevent to them but test results on others from different systems may not be.
Agreed.
My interest in the data lies in what the top athletes results were in the training exercises vs their contest results.
These numbers, in and of themselves and compared to nothing else in particular, provide for enjoyable critical thinking.
What is the significance of this test pertaining to bobsled? Obviously it shows explosive power, but I would think that the 30m and the OL numbers would suffice? I am impressed however, by the speed of some of the elite sledders. I saw that Grand ran a 6.6 in the 60m and doing that at 230! Seems like some of those guys could have a future playing special teams in the league if they knew how to hit.
I also heard that the head US bobsled strength coach was a major HIT practitioner! Philbin is his name I believe. Does anybody care to shed any light on this?! HIT and bobsled doesn’t seem to be a good combo at all.
sHIT and Bobsled a bad combo? What could possibly be a good combo with sHIT?
I knew that would be your response and I agree! However, bobsledding is so explosive and relies solely on short-duration bursts that I would think that HIT would be even more of a disaster than in other sports. Of course, when Herschel Walker is your brakeman and you have Gault and Nehemiah on the squad you probably have a lot of room for error!
Incidentally, Charlie have you ever worked with any bobsled teams?
Pascal Caron and some other Canadian guys don’t do HIT and are/were pretty good.
CT has some posts here about what he did with his bobsled guys and they were pretty successful, if I recall.
Bondarchuck says the OHB shot throw has no correlation with any event and Pfaff says it has the best correlation (and he’s coached a lot more very fast guys and gals).
Thoughts?
CT,
Thought provoking article, but my question involves Pascal Caron. Just what is this guy doing in only 2 hours of strength training per week to acheive the results that he has?
Thanks- Tony
Well the guy is exceptionally gifted genetically. And is your typical easy-hard gainer (read my article on the subject).
He used the Canadian ascending-descending program described in my second book … well an abridged version of it.
LOWER BODY WORKOUT 1
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Back squat
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Romanian deadlift
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Power snatch from hang
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Jump squat
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Depth jumps
UPPER BODY WORKOUT
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Bench press
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Push press
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Weighted chins
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Barbell rowing
LOWER BODY WORKOUT 2
-
Depth jumps
-
Jump squat
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Power snatch from the hang
-
Romanian deadlift
-
Back squat
The number of reps/sets/weight varied depending on the training phase. But it was normally 3-4 sets per exercise, 3-5 reps for the strength and power movements and 10 reps for the plyo work.
better not tell Mark McLaughlin this.
Davan, are you referring to the backwards overhead shot throw? I need to brush up on my acronyms.
If so, Bondarchuk lists the transference of this exercise, depending on shot weight, to various T&F events in his Transfer of Training in Sports book and, short of reviewing every page, at no point do I recall him stating that it has no correlation.
The degree of correlation/transference is dependent upon the relation between the biodynamic/bioenergetic profile of the event and the exercise. As a result, his tables show that the transference is higher for some events than others.
Regarding what you state about Pfaffs findings, I suspect that the backward overhead throw is a staple in his training and perhaps, for this reason, all of his trainees have high trainedness in the throw and therefore the fastest sprinters, jumpers, throwers are able to demonstrate their superior ‘general’ explosiveness and speed strength via the throw.
No correlation is an exaggeration, but he basically says there is very minimal between 100m (and sprints in general) and overhead backwards shot throw (16lb male competitive shot obviously). Pfaff on the other hand says it correlates the best compared to other tests (SLJ, bound tests, etc.). Pfaff has coached a ton of sprinters at various levels, so there must be some legitimacy in his beliefs.
My question is how can Bondarchuck possibly list what correlates with what if it is so dependent on skill within that test (only possible reason for the differences between his and Pfaff’s beliefs other than ignorance)?
According to Bondarchuk, a positive interrelationship begins at .349. The highest correlation for any shot throw (underhand forward or overhead back) at any level 100m sprinter men or women is .324
ie: no correlation and sometimes even a slight negative correlation
Things to consider:
Bondarchuk sent surveys out to various national team coaches in the 80s. He asked them to test their athletes (jumpers, throwers, sprinters) on the various/popular training exercises in order to rank the transference relative to their competitive results.
Whether or not the athletes possessed high trainedness in the training exercises- I don’t know. This is was not indicated by Bondarchuk in his lecture, to me in person, or in the book, nor would I suspect that he could have known considering how many surveys he sent out (a large number indeed).
We should note that the majority of the training exercises used in Bondarchuk’s text do not require much time to demonstrate efficiency. The exceptions being the snatch and C&J. This is not to state, however, that improvements can’t be made over the course of days simply due to the associated technical mastery that results via repetition.
I think the important consideration is that Bondarchuk’s transference scores are comparing the training exercises to individual events and are relative to the athlete’s qualification ranking.
If Pfaff is stating that the backwards overhead throw ranks highest across the board, regardless of athlete qualification ranking, I suspect it is for the reason I stated in my last post.
One thing is for certain Davan, the word ignorant has no place in a discussion pertaining to the methodologies used by Bondarchuk or Pfaff.
James, I think you may have hit on something regarding the OHB being a staple in Pfaff’s trainin. OHB, underhand forward, and various rotational throws are staples in his training and for his template it correlates well. I imagine these throws are performed a minimum of once per week in every cycle. HOWEVER he has noted that when Donovan came to him, if I recall, he had not performed any of these throws before, yet if memory is correct, threw 18m for OHB. Bruny slightly less, Oba slightly less. All three were 9.8 sprinters and all three threw OHB further than his other guys that were sub 10 yet not as fast as those three. Plus those guys are way faster than any Russian sprinter ever.
I know the exercises are simple, which is why I asked.
So we have a simple exercise that Bondarchuck says does not have a correlation (maybe negative).
Pfaff says the opposite.
My question: What is the purpose or use of all the charts and tables if they are highly dependent on the program (your response) used?
I know of Bondarchuck’s hammer throwers, but what sprinters did he coach?