I remember Charlie talking about sets of 2 x 200m with 1 minute in between runs. I think the idea was to run at the pace of your potential 400m time and eventually you will get there without the rest. Can anyone remember specifically how these where done and in what phase?
Sounds more like a KK session which was 2 x 200 + 200 where + = 30 sec and 30 mins between sets and was done in transition from memory.
And done at come home pace.
yes that does sound better, 1 minute rest would be too much
not when you are doing them 
Read the forum guys (no pun intended :p)
- 2x200 session kitkat
2min break. between runs when you do 2x2x200 take full recovery between sets up to 45 min.
It’s SPP session (or transition period sesion as KK call it)
you can find more in the threshold thread. http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?6758-Lactate-Threshold-Training
If you don’t like seaching take a peak at the summary :http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?11082-The-way-of-the-quot-400-quot-Thanks-to-KK
DUH! of course, sorry I was thinking of 300+150 and variants of… silly John :rolleyes:
Pindaman, kitkats 6 x 200 starts out with 2min rest, but doesn’t it progress to 2 x 2 x 200 with jog back rest between reps and 20min between sets? I think the final 2 x 200 was off of either jog back or 30secs with the first rep at come home pace and the second try to go even faster, wasn’t it?
Hi Star,
No it doesn’t progress to what you say.
I have contacted KK and extensively studied teh lactate thread.
Really it’s 2x2x200 (2 min)’ - full rec (45 min)
jogging does happen with the 4x150, 30sec happens in the split runs like 300+150, or 300+4x60
Well, although my title was 2 x 200m sets, I am sure I now remember it as John stated ie. 200 + 200 with very short rest. I am however, thinking it was one of Charlies not KKs.
Either way, wouldn’t come home pace be too slow for the reps? This would make for an easyish 400m.
I am keen to find out what the actual session was since i remember doing it and the lactic biuld up in the hamstrings was greater than from any other session. That’s good isn’t it!
Pindaman definitely has a handle on the kitkat sessions. However, I do remember some discussion, I thought by kitkat, concerning a session that consisted of a 200 + 200 run off of 30secs. The first rep was at come home, the second rep was as fast as possible, hopefully slightly faster than come home. I’m sure I’m getting something wrong with the description, but that’s what I remember. And no, come home is not slowish, its a tough superset.
Edit: Searched the Lactate thread and could not find any reference to my version of the workout. I believe Pindaman is correct, and the workout is off of 2mins. The other version that I may have been confusing was 200 + 200, with the first rep at tempo and the second at come home or better.
The way of the “400” Thanks to KK
I found this under heading Race Modeling
The training target times in the 6x200m (which ultimately collapses to 2x200m off 2mins at race-specific splits) are based simply on the most common race models.
I am pretty sure that Kitkat specified 2 mins rest, but that was one of several workouts designed for essentially the same purpose. I use 2x2x200 w/2 mins at least once every season (high school girls) and have both 200 and 400 runners do it. In fact, we did it yesterday (week 7 of a 12-week season), with a 20 min rest betw sets. They were instructed to do them both @ 90% based on SB 200 time. The fitter and more determined girls ran the first at about 92-95%, the second about 90%. The second set was only marginally slower.
I think that I will trial this a little and start off simply by halving my best 400m time and running both 200m at this time. I will have 2 minutes rest between the 200m reps to start with and 20 minutes between sets. With each session I will reduce the rest between the 200m reps and see where it goes. I am hoping the first session will not be hard so I will have alot of room for improvement and don’t burn out. I would like to get down to 30 second rest between reps and then test the 400m.
Rich,
Please report back on your progress with this session. As I’m sure you already know, come home pace is about 3 secs slower per 200m than best 200m pace. If I understand you right, your goal pace will be 1.5 secs slower than best 200m pace, which is only slightly slower than first 200m pace. I don’t know your split times, but my guess is that your target pace will be at about 94% of your best 200m pace. Is that about right?
If my numbers are right, I think this will be a killer pace off of 2min rest, and nearly impossible off of 30secs rest. I will be very interested in your experience with this session.
The key will be to ensure you don’t leave your best efforts on the training track…
Will do star61 although will only be starting it in a few weeks. My goal will be more like 3 seconds off my 200m pace at first. This is because I am not actually a 400m runner (yet). I have had a few years out and my main event was the 100m but after getting back down to sub 7 in the 60m last year my body threw the same old problems up and so I am in the middle of converting myself to be a more power endurance orientated athlete before aiming for the 400m. In winter training I used to run early fifties in the 400m but never competed in it.
I agree, I used to reach a plateux after 4 weeks of intensive tempo. Back in my old training group we used to do too much I reckon
Good luck with your efforts. I will make a prediction here. If you are successful at accomplishing 200 + 200 off of 30secs at 90% of 200pb or better, you will be a much better 400m sprinter than you were a 100m sprinter. Again, best of luck, and look forward to tracking your progress.
if you are just starting, wouldn’t the 5x200 be a better starting point.just did my first one ever .
The 5x200 will get to a 2x2x200 in time
DDR