Hey I was wondering if anybody has a good weight training program for sprinters that can really improve your max strength and improve your 1RM on core lifts such as the bench, squat, and clean. I know all about what lifts sprinters should use and all, I am just struggling a little bit on developing a solid weight training program considering how long I lifted this past year and felt that I didn’t get enough strength gains I should of received.
I am just struggling a little bit on developing a solid weight training program considering how long I lifted this past year and felt that I didn’t get enough strength gains I should of received.
What you really mean’t to say was, the small gains that you have made has had very little cross over to your sprinting. And by looking at your top 10, not very suprising. First of all, any upperbody exercise IMO that tops a posterior chain exercise/variation exercise is suicidal. I know you have stated in no order but if you really do believe Bench Press deserves to be #1, then that is what you deserve, a drop in performance.
Bench Presses, Military Presses, Incline Presses… Great for adding bulky muscle mass, there pretty good in the way they lower your Upper-Lower Body power ratio too, but hey, if they make you fit into what another billion people have on the planet, a nice set of pecs, why not…
How great is a bench press in terms of increasing a strength exercise, lets say your deadlift. Well from my experience, an increase in grip strength would have a better cross over effect to an improvement in the deadlift than Benching ever would. You are doing more grip training than benching, right, I thought so too. How great is a bench press in terms of making your legs move quicker down the track. No need to answer that. Explosive arm action… They couldn’t hold a candle to dumbell arm swings.
Leave your ego (and flashy pecs) at the door, and start hitting that posterior chain with IMO a 3 or 4:1 ratio between posterior chain/variation exercises and Upperbody.
I know of around 30/40 or so Posterior chain exercises/ w/slight variations, so plenty out there to choose from.
Fabio, ignore him, it has been discussed many times the benefits of the bench press, and if he thought it was number one he wouldnt have put in no particular order. What were you doing before? Maxes? Schedule? etc… we need this stuff in order to help you. But I would go over to elitefts.com and look at westside methods, and look at all the things David W has written(I think he strength training works for speed, his 60m time proves that…), and really just figure out where the balance is for you between track and sprinting.
Well early on (when I began-july-august) I did some strength training work with reps of 6-10 and sets of 3 to 4 then afterwards I did max strength weight training with reps of 3 to 6.I lifted 3 days a week with generally no more than 5 (6 stretching it) lifts per session (bench, squat, rows, clean, SLDL…)
Also I have read David W’s article “Strength Training for sprinters” and found it VERY informative, I plan on reading more of his articles its just I can’t udnerstand some of them such as “off 180’s” etc and when he has Buffering-15% etc I don’t understand, if this could be cleared up I’d love to start incorporating his strength program into it sicnei t really increases times for Speed.
Oh yea, and I don’t really have any pecs at all, I just inserted the bench, incline, and military in that list because I saw thewm in the CFTS manual and read their benefits on cross section gains.
Yes Fabio, look into westside training. Plenty of world class sprinters coming from there using there program. I have a better idea, go to HSI in Los Angeles, ohhhh no, wait a minute, numba wants you to become better at lifting heavier weights, sorry… Yeah, go to Westside.
I maybe wrong, but wasn’t David W’s time in the 60 performed from a flying start, If that is the case, well, any chance of me competing in the Tour De France with an engine on my bike???..
As for Oly lifters. Numba do me the good thing of posting links to where I can view video footage of an Oly lifter sprinting against an elite sprinter. Just to see the comparison. Because as we all know, Oly lifting carries over to sprinting (in a big way), just like a ML baseball player can become a professional PGA Tour golfer in the drop of a hat & vice versa.
No, I don’t want to hear how some Russian sport scientist carried out a study coming to the conclusion how Oly lifters have 60’’ verticals them being the most explosive athletes on the planet. I want to see video footage of an Oly Lifter racing a world class sprinter. I am right to believe you do have a wide range of footage???. Words from studys mean nothing, its putting them words into actions out on the track where the real proof in the pudding is, and where I would be most convinced. David W happens to run a good 60m time. Ohhh well, yeah oly lifts must be great then.
I have read time & time again, people making amazing strength gains but haven’t seen an increase in speed to go along with there amazing strength gains in the gym. speed is a prerequisite to lift big weights. Powerlifters lift big weights, ohh sorry, all powerlifters are fast I forgot, slipped my mind.
Yeah ok… Ben Johnson could lift 2/3x + his bodyweight. Respect for that, but where does a 600lb squat, factor in terms of improving his running speed. Remember, you can’t choose your parents and just because you personally can perform a 600lb squat, does not mean you personally will be running sub 10’s or world class 60m times. It just doesn’t work like that.
You and your olympic lifting. You must be pretty foolish to believe all Oly lifters are fast, very foolish. Oly lifts are just glammed up technical posterior chain exercises, which hoisting a weight above your head, seems very unnessary and a waste of my time to even begin learning the lifts. i.e an Oly lift/variation IMO couldn’t hold a candle to performing simple reverse hypers, Good-Morning variations and even abdominal/hip flexor core work as a carry over to sprinting.
Cheers for the video links…
Also I have read David W’s article “Strength Training for sprinters” and found it VERY informative, I plan on reading more of his articles its just I can’t udnerstand some of them such as “off 180’s” etc and when he has Buffering-15% etc I don’t understand, if this could be cleared up I’d love to start incorporating his strength program into it sicnei t really increases times for Speed.
Also I have read David W’s article “Strength Training for sprinters”
Is David W running sub 10’s, 10.2’s???..
If so, I’m in, If not, I’ll pass. Has he proved to himself that his program is bulletproof and he himself has proved his program works by him personally sprinting at world level. Yeah! not so easy to do, but god damn easy to develop a program he believes works and telling others what to do, thats easy.
I can’t understand some of them such as “off 180’s” etc and when he has Buffering-15% etc I don’t understand.
Fabio, I don’t understand neither. " off 180’s, off 140’s, 0ff ya bloody rocker. Buffering this, Buffering that, Buffering your car, god, just lift a god damn weight. Its the people that carry out the basics/basic fundamentals of a sport (and just the basics that seem to excel). Don’t complicate things.
For being so “bloody” critical, I hope that you have produced some top-end athletes. I think you took a good step at first in attempting to help, but it is in fact possible to ignore criticism and help people. No Problems, Just Solutions!! Give peace a chance, guys!!
Speedkillz, RnR is off in his own world…ok RnR ill take your route, here what you should do Fabio, ride a bik 6 hours a day up many hills and in the hardest gears, eat nothing, and dont touch weights! I mean afterall the greatest sprint coaches in the world must be wrong for recommending weights…
I’m not against people lifting weights, just the people who believe its the do all, end all of everything to do with time improvements, and guys who OVERRATE strength in general taking it to the extreme levels and how them gains = a carry over to faster riunning, .
I will give you my opinion on David W’s “Strength Training for sprinters” soon.
the title of the forum is strength training, the title of the thread is strength training program for sprinters, so we are discussing effective methods of strength training exclusively for that purpose! No one said as a sprinter there is no need to sprint, but that it is a tool with great value that many know nothing about(you) and neglect because they are misinformed by people like you…and an improvement in any area of the sprint equals an improvement so if improving your acceleration times doesnt= a faster track times, then what does…? Please leave your opinion out as its not valued…
Your saying "the title of the forum is strength training, the title of the thread is strength training program for sprinters, so we are discussing effective methods of strength training exclusively for that purpose"
Then you go onto say…
Again, overrating a strength program (Westside) used in the powerlifting world to develop your ability to hoist as much as much weight as possible at 1RM. Yeah, great for powerlifting, great for max strength training, but what does it do/and what proof is there that Westside benefits a human being going from 0-100m in less than 10 seconds.
Give me the names & times of all that follow/ and are based at Westside in the 100m.
Then to top it off…
because they are misinformed by people like you.
Jesus.
max strength contributes to acc…so my point was already made…enough said, its a shame you cant take advantage of the resources here…im done with RnR…
Well, back to your question, since it was hijacked by RnR,…
“off 180s” = 3 minutes rest (180 seconds rest)
Ok, Buffering is pretty easy. When working at any rep range, you should not be basing your weight selection (intensity) of an absolute (1 rep max) max, but a relatve max, for that rep. When a 15% buffer is used, for instance, on a 5 rep max, you’ll do a set of 5 at 85% of the 5 rep max.
Fabio, I seem to remember you and I having similar builds, and my main problem was I was just plain skinny, especially weak in terms of hamstring extensor strength and core strength. (relative strength wasn’t a problem)
What I’ve been doing is focusing my work on ab development, and its made a lot of difference in terms of every day posture and sprints longer than 30m.
A suggestion -
(also what I’ve been doing)
Start with Bench Presses and Squats - box squats if you can swing it, and use a touch and go style. Set up a 12 session cycle, where you’ll add 10% to your 3rm. For instance, if your squat 3rm is 305, then the goal is 335.
take 110 pounds of that. that’s your starting weight, in this case 225. your first 5 sessions, do 5 reps, adding 10 pounds each time. go down to a very comfortable weight and do a few sets of 5. the next 4 sessions 4 reps, the last 3 reps. THE KEY IS TO AVOID FEELING WEAK - BUT YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE SOME IMPROVEMENT EVERYTIME.
For bench, it might be easier to use 5 lbs increments.
Follow with some easy (on the cns) P-chain movement for 3-4 sets of 6-10, and some heavy abs for 3-4 sets of 5-15.
Do that any time you have a cns day, as soon after your track work. (what works for is every 4th day, of course, I don’t have time/access for even most rudimentary recovery tools that you might have).
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yes finally a sensible person, i like your plan, but(and is this in no way meant as derrogatory sp?) this seems like a progressive overload plan.
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This is why I suggested westside, use a series of movements similar to the main one, ie the squat, cycle in snatch grip deadlift off podium, trap bar deadlift off podium, box squats, full depth squats, good mornings, the list is endless and because they use pretty much the same muscles no need for soreness
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however since your a sprinter i would suggest stopping before a true RM is reached but at a point you feel you really challenged yourself.
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Same goes with assistance movements.
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And if you wanted to include oly’s put them in after sprints for w/e rep scheme youd like, but low volume( i stay at 12 reps or less normally), mayb auto reg here even(short breaks between reps, then an “extended” one between sets) and then any plyo u feel will help.
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I also really like David W’s principles(i’ll post what JimboUK sent me)
7.Either way they are both great programs, and what briangoldstein has suggested is a good approach too, Im just anti progressive overload haha
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As well you have to find what works for you in the best way, like which system would work best for bringing up weakness in the weightroom that could translate to gains on the track…
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As well exercise order should be, Core Movement for the workout(takes the most coordination, is the most stressfull, etc…, requires what you have the most), then exercises to assist weak area’s(ie for a squat workout it could be, Snatch Grip Deadlift off Platform, Glute Ham Raises, Hypers)
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set/rep schemes would be up to you, as well as exercise selection. Hope this helps Fabio.
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Of course since your probably lifting after sprinting you will be sufficiently warmed up, if not a short and light GPP warm up would be fine(ie, Push Ups, Sit-Ups, Bodyweight Squats, Pull-Ups, Jump Rope, Jumping Jacks, Pogo Hops, etc…things of that nature, low intensity)
Poor choice.
Workouts should begin with effective exercises that will assist/enhance your squat, deadlift variations etc when you start getting into the core of your workout…
Butch Reynolds, I know, was an advocate of Westside. He was a 400m runner though.
RnR - '…i.e an Oly lift/variation IMO couldn’t hold a candle to performing simple reverse hypers, Good-Morning variations and even abdominal/hip flexor core work as a carry over to sprinting."
Oh my. Well this is just terrific. RnR, before you go off bashing Westside maybe you should do a little research next time. First of all, Westside advocates a training system where GPP is established before actually beginning the program AND throughout the program. You workout your areas that you know you need work on (ABS FOR INSTANCE…) that dont necessarily fit into the heaving of big weights category. So you could fit most any range of excercises into the program at any time. Additionally, if you had done any research at all then you would know that reverse hypers and Good Mornings are a staple to most westside programs. There are also other good posterior chain excercises incorporated into westside such as the G/H Raise, Deadlift variations, squat variations, and then those olympic lifts which are just glamorized p. chain workouts :rolleyes: Give me a break. Your ignorance amazes me, and in my eyes your opinion is neither welcome nor valid from this point forward.
There is an ‘Example Periodisation Plan’ on my site (Articles; MyArticles). I would post it here but it doesn’t format well.
No one has really addressed a good point that R’n’R brought up. Why so much focus on weight lifters programmes and no mention of the weight lifting programmes of elite sprinters?
Many successful sprint groups use a similar training philospohy when it comes to weight work - might be worth a look huh?
can you post an example Dazed?
because we need to discuss principles, and not many of us here are elite athletes, plus the fact that many things need to be individualized…its not good to copy elites, but look at principles and what may apply, as well just because its what they do doesnt mean its best…