I’m confused…by what so many of you are posting…that there is no control of how fast you will be…that pretty much once you’re “mature” that is what it is.
If that is true, then please what the hell is the purpose of this forum and what good would it do to follow Charlies training if you are so “doomed”
This really makes no sense to me?
So, did I just waste $200 on training materials for my daughters future training?
Is it a waste for anyone to buy these materials???
Rick
My though is that they quality of coaching they receive gets worse when they go to college, but without knowing full details, I’m can’t be 100% sure.
I don’t understand the negative, disrespectfull (“yawn”) comments from your so called “experience”…
I"m not saying I’m an expert myself, but I will comment after reading some of your early threads and posts, it appears your “experience” doesn’t warrant the “yawn”…
What do you know about this person?
What do you know about her father, Coach Mike?
What do you know about how she trains?
You know nothing about her, or her training…but yet you “Met a few girls like this”
From all this negative input, why would anyone care to try to make it to the elite level? It actually makes me want to go elsewhere, even though I know that Charlies training is the best there is…
For your information…Hannah trains the same as the rest of the team…about 1 1/2 hours every Saturday/Monday/Wednesday
These are not heavy workouts, mostly spent stretching, drills and progressive sprints up to 50 meters, running hills and stairs…training and amounts are dependent on age.
During the summer season UCLA’s sprinting coach, Tony Veney makes visits and gives training also.
Coach Veney is Mike Cunliffes mentor, and Mike has learned much of what he knows from him.
Coach Mike is very strict on how much anyone trains or competes…he is always preaching “less is more”…
I even recieved a couple lectures for allowing my daughter to compete when she had a small pain in her leg…“This is not Football, it’s not a contact sport! If you hurt, you don’t run!”
What was funny about that comment from coach mike, is after my daughter was able to run, in her first race, she thought runners were catching her at the finish line, so she leaned forward…but too far, lost her balance and landed very hard, flat on her stomach/face…
I ran over to her, helped her up…and the first thing she said to me, laughing…was:
“I thought Coach Mike said this wasn’t a contact sport?”
We all got a good laugh …and she was happy that when she fell, she at least fell across the finish line, even though her face turned black and blue, she had “raspberries” on her stomach, sides, and legs…she proudly wore her “battle wounds”… he he
Rick
Rick, you’re daughter seems to be an extraordinary young woman giving you much to be proud about. I hope her coach is aware of the caliber of person he has in her. Please convey my best wishes to her.
On another note, I will clarify what some of the others are referring to in so far as their lack of enthusiasm regarding Hannah’s results.
The school of thought, which originated in former USSR and eastern bloc Europe, that a youngsters results aren’t too much to get impressed by, or hopeful over, is rooted in the fact that the majority of the time the results are so far off the Olympic world bests that they don’t really matter.
This is because those who show some talent relative to their young peers and specialize too soon, along with over intensify/volumize their efforts, often fail to achieve the the same results at the level that counts with respect to Olympic ambitions.
This is the big distinction between what constituted the former Soviet bloc, and current China, and what we’re familiar with here in North America, and the west in general.
The Soviet era yielded East against West; athletes as a political weapon.
Immeasurable resources were directed towards creating multiple sport science subdivisions, coaching education, talent identification, research and development and so on specific to the biodynamic and bioenergetic structure of all Olympic disciplines.
The general attitude and pressure’s impressed upon the athletes was deeply rooted in their representing their Nation and in certain Eastern bloc countries, and certainly the current China, anything short of a gold medal was viewed as a disgraceful and shameful effort and subsequent reflection upon that nation.
Alternatively, over here, most of the population isn’t even aware of many Olympic disciplines and westerns tend to celebrate the fact that someone is even participating in the Olympics; whether or not they can actually compete at the world level coming in at a very distant second because they’ll be cheered on regardless.
The Soviets didn’t even stress true ‘competition’ until the athletes:
1st- showed a predisposition for high results in that particular discipline
2nd- were performing at the level that began to approach national/Olympic qualifying standards
This is why competition and specialization over there began at distinct ages which corresponded to success in different disciplines (ergo gymnastics specialization occurred the earliest due to the fact that young teens can win gold at the Olympic level whereas T&F events weren’t specialized until much later because the medalists are in their 20s)
Over here, ‘selection’ is as pedestrian as it gets. Morphobiomechanics isn’t even an available skill set to coaches at the developmental level and as a result SO MANY athletes are incorrectly selected for various sports; and then we glamorize youth competition and force early specialization to boot. It’s a disaster.
So well meaning yet uninformed parents and coaches alike are misguidedly, relative to Olympic potential, enthusiastic about youngsters who demonstrate excellence, not relative to the Olympic standard, but relative to their young peers.
So while the youths participation and results are emotionally gratifying to coaches and parents- they often mean nothing relative to their likelihood of standing on the podium at the Olympics in the future.
The issue is deeply rooted in psycho-social factors as well as the obvious physical preparatory ones.
It really comes down to the fact that Americans are wreckless, and in my view borderline criminal, with their efforts to glamorize youth competition and force early specialization.
I suspect that much of what you are seeing exchanged here in this thread is related to the fact that while Hannah’s results are exceptional relative to her peer group- there is not enough concrete evidence to support the notion that she may end up being an Olympic champion.
Those that are unimpressed by her current abilities are clearly of the mind that it doesn’t matter unless it strongly correlates to eventual world class results at the highest levels of competition.
My thoughts are that Hannah is an exceptional young talent and it would behoove her to stay the course in a fashion consistent with long term thinking.
James you are a magician with words and your ability to clearly explain what people like myself were thinking but unable to turn into such coherent text, is astounding. Of course, your amassed knowledge and expertise on this subject helps :).
Oh, I’m sorry, I did not mean to come off negative, but at the same time don’t get mad at me because I refuse to jump on your little bandwagon.
And I do have experience in sprinting (I’m an athlete not a coach which is why I don’t know that much!), I was a medalist in the Nike Indoor classic for the 400 meters (I ran against the likes of Shomari Mckenzie and others who later quit). So until your little girl does AT LEAST THAT, then I feel I have room to speak. Once she goes further then that I will shut up.
I wish you the best, and I hope to be middle aged and be able to watch these girls run when they are adults; if they make it that far (and I hope they do). But I’m telling you, many of the girls wind up pregnant, or others quit from being ran into the ground.
Your entire post was excellent, but I had to highlight the above.
From the descriptions of the training (3 sessions per week, low volume), it seems to me that her father/coach is being very sensible and the likelihood of her burning out (mentally, emotionally, physically) is low compared to most youth stars.
Again, I understand all the variable reasons why somone could not go beyond a certain point.
I understand that it is very possible with Hannah.
I am just recognizing her abilities now, as the fastest 14 year old in the US in the 100/200 and hoping for the best in her future, which, as I see it with all the support she has around her, is very bright.
I look to the positive, as she is a friend.
I should have made the title of this thread:
“She “could” soon be …”
Well…thanks for all the comments and posts, it was a fun season and looking forward to the next one.
Rick
Hey Rich, sorry to leave you solo on this one. I just saw the thread. I have done some speed work with Hannah, her brother and some kids on the team when they had reached a “plateau” of sorts. She’s sharp and a quick study and really well rounded.
Her dad Mike is sharp and has an excellent outlook and support system from physio thru nutrition. The guy is so positive and upbeat and always has something inspiring to say.
Hannah, has amazing upside left, and we have noted some technical things that will shave another half second off her 100 meter time.
Thank God that only He knows what tomorrow holds, so in the meantime we will hope and pray for the best for Hannah and all the youngsters trying to do their best.
James, this has come up a couple of times recently. Could you explain why this premature thickening in unfavourable, compared with adults where I believe a degree of LV hypertrophy is a normal response to exercise? Is it as a result of hypertrophy occurring under anaerobic vs aerobic conditions?
My understanding is that the early and premature thickening of the muscle adversely affects the suppleness, flexibility and, ultimately, the performance of the heart at full maturity. I’ve also read that this phenomenon has been tied to cases of hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and sudden death later in life. Significant changes in early development often profoundly impact structure and function later in life (similar to developing bone density very early to ensure that greater bone density carries with you into later life).
As an aside, our football program suffered a loss with our quarterback passing away from hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. Months later as we were still grasping for answers, one of the coaches mentioned that the athlete told him how his parents often took him hiking (and made him hike by himself) in the mountains of Austria when he was young. The coach asked him if he was 10-12 years old, and the athlete said, “No, I was 4 years old.” It made me wonder about how such a significant aerobic activity at altitude could affect changes to an athletes heart structure at a very young age. There could be no connection, but it still made me wonder.
My understanding is that any thickening of the heart wall or valves is not desirable, particularly for aerobic performance. A significant portion of the marketing of electronic muscle stim is “geared” towards road cyclists in Europe. They claim that the blood pressure and effort created through conventional weight training will thicken the heart muscle, thereby reducing cardiac performance. Use of EMS, however, will result in strength improvements without the cardiac hypertrophy.
“conventional weight training will thicken the heart muscle”
Is this including the weight training in Charlie’s or general sprint programs?
Rick
Within the context of the goals of an elite aerobic based road cyclist, they would deem any thickening of the heart walls to be detrimental to the circulatory efficiency of the cardiac system. For the rest of us, it would not be considered to be of any detriment.
Nice to see someone post who is familiar with Hannah and her Father.
My daughter may have even attended on of those practices or met before?
Rick
Not sure Rich… We did a couple with just his son and daughter, and then a Saturday session with about 8 kids from the club…
It is my understanding that ventricular hypertrophy, along with a slight increase in ventricular cavity size, contributes to increased stroke volume and cardiac output and is therefore beneficial to athletes and accounts for lower maximal heart rates often seen in elite athletes.
The key is to distinguish between an adaptation that is desirable and appropriate for one level of biological maturity yet undesirable and misappropriate for another.
See Number 2’s response in reference to the latter.
I would like to read more about undesirable ventricular adaptations from exercise in children. Any sources on this would be gratefully received as my own searches have yielded nothing specifically relevant.
Just to re-iterate – I have very little specific knowledge regarding cardiac physiology. I’m simply relaying my personal experiences and some anecdotal information in speaking with a few people in the know.
Might be a good idea to do a literature search on PubMed to get a good idea of what the research is showing.
Very interesting and important topic though.
James - does your university do any screening on hypertrophic cardiomyopathy cases? If so, how is it done - through ECG analysis? I recently watched the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary on Loyola Marymount, Hank Gathers and Paul Westhead. Still, after all these years, a very sad story.