The Bulgarians and Romanians’ technical model (a-la-Istvan Javorek) who spent much time with the eastern block masters, discusses this often. He trains athletes at Johnson County Community College in Kansas and would be an excellent reference for Olympic lifting technical models. Some of his athletes include: Wesley Barnett, Randy Barnes, Dragomir Cioroslan, Istvan Tasnadi, and Dirk Yasko.
With maximal loads lifters in the clean will rarely attempt to lift the bar past their belly button as it is much easier to move the body, (which usually ways considerably less than what’s on the bar) under the bar then to pull too long and free fall down with the bar.
I suspect a stronger slower athlete will attempt to pull longer, and a faster more explosive athlete will hit the bar and get under.
Does this by any chance relate with lack of plantar flexion mentioned above and perhaps the leaning back by some (e.g., Dimas)?
Although this might happen in a few cases in the link provided, in the pics above -although from front view- extension is apparently there (i.e., perhaps not a consistent action) (e.g., Dimas 3rd pic, I think).
In any case, would you teach someone to start lifting without a full extension, as Herb pointed out? Why would you want to do that?
Nap, since i don’t care whether my athletes catch the weight or not (they are all track athletes) what do you consider would be best? I have up until now tried to emphasise full extension with straight arms. Is there any reason for a non competative athlete they would want to not go to full extension?
Nikoluski
Yes, we do teach our athletes - and olympic lifters on our club teams - to “throw” (explode, etc, insert coaching cue here) once the barbell just crosses the knees.
We teach the lifts by first teaching the pull from the floor, and then the squat (be it front for the clean or overhead for the snatch). Then we progress to lifting from a high hang (above the knee).
Yes, it requires an exceptionally gifted lifter to excel at lifting this way, but teaching to explode before full extension at least helps many lifters to get under the bar faster. Too many lifters that I see stay with the pull far too long. Once the barbell has been “propulsed”, continuing to pull on the bar has a negligable effect on the height of the pull…
As a side note, I was tought this way from several different sources, including some pupils/coaches from the old Soviet system, as well as two Moldovan lifters (one took third at the Europeans as a 62 not too long ago). When these lifters came to train/live with us, they preached the same style that you see Kahki, Dimas, and many of the recent Bulgarian champions use…
As another side note, there are many current Russians using the other pulling styles with sucess as well…
[QUOTE=Nikoluski]Does this by any chance relate with lack of plantar flexion mentioned above and perhaps the leaning back by some (e.g., Dimas)?
You and Herb make excellent points in regards to the debate of training ‘All Sports Conditioning Athletes’ as apposed to Olympic weight lifters. Many US colleges have modified the lifts and use what is now referred to as a jump clean, which is exactly what Herb was referring to. These schools (universities/colleges) have used this technique with great success, not to mention much easier for the athletes learn.
When I am talking about knee flexion, I am only talking about 5 to 10 degrees, it is not drastic. The Olympic lifts themselves when taught in this matter are all about the speed of performance not the weight, however as you know when you can move quickly (IMPROVE -RFD) athletes are able to handle greater loads.
Their are many phases in the lift that require impulse power, strength (start/acceleration), flexibility, timing, coordination, relaxation, mental toughness, and courage. And many of those qualities are developed in the catch phase.
Do not get me wrong, I have not all the answers, but I have found with this technique a greater focus by the athletes on speed of movement.
Herb great pictures, especially the ones post-lift; I do not think people appreciate the athleticism of these athletes, or the power!!
You also make a great point, I do not think their is a reason why an athlete would have to catch the bar, when your focus is on ‘Triple Extension’.
The Olympic lifts are not specific to sprinting other than the athletic qualities they can provide into the conversion of your speed work.
Modifying them to give your athletes what you think they need is what coaching is all about.
Great, thanks for your input. The one thing i think people using the OLs for other sports forget is that if you attempted to lift the weight (and actually got full extension) then it doesn’t matter if you catch it. You already got the stimulus, the catch is immaterial (though that doesn’t mean you can’t attempt to try).
but if you learn to how use a full catch, you can use more weight, thus more weight is used in the triple extension. if you just want triple extension, than just use the 45 lb bar, but i would think you would want some weight on there.