Herb any news on the time that ellapsed between the top position of the pull and dropping under the bar. Is it 0.02s for every frame = 0.14s? I am wondering how long the bar is “stationary” before it begins to fall back downwards as it appears not to drop at all in these pictures…
A couple of thoughts on extension, if a young athlete focuses on full extension they will have a difficult time getting under the bar. The knees should never completely lock-out as the athlete will have a tendency to free-fall with the bar.
Another important point is in the timing of the shrug; many athletes use the shrug too early and continue to pull the bar to long. The shrug is used to actively pull the athlete under the bar while it is still moving up.
Worrying about getting under the bar before proper full extension mechanics are in place is putting the cart before the horse. I can’t see getting under the bar as taking precedence over full extension. Develop full extension first with power-clean type shrugs and deadlifts, and work on pulling the body under the bar later.
Frames 7 v 8? 
The shrug shoulder be timed correctly with powerful and full hip extension, which will ultimately lead to reaction under the bar.
Developing a poor mortor pattern where “Full Extension” is the priority, is putting the cart before the horse! Full extension will only occure at the hip and spine not the knees they remain slightly flexed.
If your statement was ‘ultimatley the case’ we would not have athletes dedicating their lives to the perfection of the olifts. Ballistic movements require a sequence, the better the technical model the better the results. The elements you have mentioned are more understood, the others I have mentioned are details that are often over-looked.
The knees remain slightly flexed according to who? The motion is almost identical to a two legged straight up jump, and nobody would agree that the knees are to remain flexed with a jump, why then with a clean?
Stand with your legs completely straight - knees locked out - and figure out how athletic you really are? Attempt to drop under the bar, as quickly as you can? Do the same thing with your knees slightly flexed, and sense the difference in speed.
The second thing to consider is that you can not apply force to the ground when your feet are in the air, so Olympic lifting is not like a jump (the goal of which is air time) you want your feet on the ground as long and as early as possible. You replace your feet you do not jump.
I was going to put arrows pointing to the knees on all of the following series of photos.
Again, note the knees.
Weller Clean ( I think this was a world record, but was broken that same competition by Chemerkin).
Note the similarities between the Olylifts and his jumping.
That is a lot of weight to get off the ground.
Hi Herb,
There are many technical schools in Olympic lifting, and some may advocate locking out the knees, but the better ones do not.
Also your picture angles are not clearly showing the knee position as we need a side angle.
Locking out the knees are your words not mine. “Full extension” are the words I used. By locking out do you mean hyperextending the knee joint? I neither advocate locking the knee, nor hyperextending it so we may actually be in agreement here. Full extension however means that there is no flexion in the knee joint. I am unaware of any schools with good lifters that advocate not fully extending the knee when doing Olympic lifts. It would be like sprinting without tripple extension.
If full extension, good shrug, etc are there getting under the bar will on the contrary be easier! The bar will reach a higher level, hence less time to get under it, less effort perhaps to come up (depending on level/load).
I know there are different “technical schools” with regards to plantar flexion (you can see it in some of the pics above), but I’ve never heard one for knee extension! Could you provide a link? What “technical school” are you talking about?
Herb, good pics/posts!
My two cents -
There has been some discussion here regarding full extension and the olympic lifts…It’s interesting that the one series of pictures includes Dimas, because the Greeks, in general, do NOT reach full extension before going down/getting under the bar. Khaki K. is another good Greek example…
As for side shots, there is some video available on both Greek lifters. Randall Strossen from Milo/Ironmind might have some good pictures; his training hall tapes definately do.
I’ll try to fins some links and post them here.
Keep up the great discussion!
http://www.chidlovski.net/liftup/a_demo_non_split_jerk.asp?lift=kakhi
At this site, there’s some video with easy to use stop motion controls. The link above is to the Kakhi K. lift, and the video is from the side. It has a great view of how he never reaches full extension…He was a 3 time gold medal winner, as well as Dimas.
I just wanted to post this to show one school of thought/practice on the lifts!
Dimas and about 2 other top lifters on the planet. There speed in getting under the bar is otherworldly. Teaching a person to lift like this is like teaching a sprinter how to start like Ben. There are always exceptions. Thanks for the link.