for those who do olympic lifts, do u need less rest time, or days between workouts because olympic lifts have no eccentric portion, for instance can u olympic lift more often than u could if u were doing squats, deadlifts etc…
I definitely don’t find the Olympic lifts as draining as squats & deads
Although they may not feel as draining as from a muscular/PNS standpoint they are equally or more taxing on the CNS due to the speed of the lifts.
Its almost like comparing 30 meter flys to special endurance. After the special end. you may feel absolulely spent but after the 30 meter flys you may feel supercharged and you can complete more. However the 30 meter flys have placed a higher demand on the CNS and the special end. placed a bit less demand on the CNS but more of a demand on other body systems including the muscular system and lactate system.
Although the OL lifts, when performed with significant loads, are CNS intensive, the fact that there is very little eccentric muscle action, especially in the ‘power’ cleans/snatches/jerks, facilitates an avenue for higher training frequency.
Additionally, as I mentioned, the load plays a very significant role when determining training frequency. Thus, the proper regulation of loading allows for more frequent training.
James,
good post. Can we agree that using loads in the olympic lifts over 75% will take just as long to recovery from as sprints at 95%. Thus if the load is altered during the training week. 80% day #1 and 65% from a hang on day day#2 and 75% powersnatch on day #3 recovery shouldnt be a problem?
Also lets make it clear with any more than 2 days of olympic lifts we are referring to special prep or the begining of precomp.
I’m afraid I don’t quite understand. I was under the impression that (% of max intensity being equal) heavy, slow lifts like deads have a bigger impact on the CNS than the quick lifts or short speed work. Is this not the case?
Thank you,
Ross Hunt
If the quick lifts are lower intensity the heavy slow lifts will be more CNS taxing. However if you are lifting at 80% of your powerclean from the floor although the weight will be moving fast it will not be moving as fast as you would be able to move it if it were 65% and better yet for that matter if the weight was 65% and you were moving it even faster using the stretch reflex from a hamg position.
As far as the slow heavy lifts being more CNS taxing than short speed 95-100% sprinting I am not 100% sure about. Although I think the sprinting has more a of an effect on the CNS.
QUIKAZHELL, I don’t know that I would draw that particular percentage comparison. The reason that I say this is because of the enourmously high intensity and frequency of training of certain OL National Teams (eg Bulgaria and China from what I gather) Thus, I would be more inclined to allott a greater frequency of high intensity OL lifting than sprinting.
However, I am speaking to these CNS stressors out of context. Thus, if you are specifically considering a sprinter, than I would personally advise sticking to Charlie’s High/Low approach for determining weight training loads and perform ME lifts on speed/Special endurance days and submax or no weight training at all on tempo or off days.
Lastly, if we are considering a sprinter, than as we know, there is a good arguement against performing any reactive weight lifting (OL or DE lifting in general) at all due to the extreme reactive/plyometric nature of speed work.
[QUOTE=James Smith]Although the OL lifts, when performed with significant loads, are CNS intensive, the fact that there is very little eccentric muscle action, especially in the ‘power’ cleans/snatches/jerks, facilitates an avenue for higher training frequency.QUOTE]
Yes the power version are no doubt less taxing than the full squat versions, due to the extreme amoritization phase and concentric rise out if the hole, very much like plyometrics. This is very taxing on the body especially the legs and when athletes do use them they should try and cut down the volume of other squating movements as well as high intensity jumps.
Frit,
You just lost me.
I thought the power version were the full version and the hang version are what you are refering to the power versions.
Ex.
me- "power"cleans-from floor(full version)
HangCleans-From hang
It seems like you are refering to powercleans the power version is hang cleans due to the atromatization phase like plyos
?
Sorry to confuse you, my bad.
I meant full version meaning a catching the bar in a full squat after the pull, like the OL’s do in comp.
power clean:pull from the floor, catch in quarter squat
squat clean: pull from floor catch in full squat.
Hang clean: pull from above the knee, catch high or low
same goes for the snatch.
sorry to confuse you. somtimes my hands write faster than my mind!!!
please note my edit in my above post!!!
"QUIKAZHELL, I don’t know that I would draw that particular percentage comparison. The reason that I say this is because of the enourmously high intensity and frequency of training of certain OL National Teams (eg Bulgaria and China from what I gather) Thus, I would be more inclined to allott a greater frequency of high intensity OL lifting than sprinting.
However, I am speaking to these CNS stressors out of context. Thus, if you are specifically considering a sprinter, than I would personally advise sticking to Charlie’s High/Low approach for determining weight training loads and perform ME lifts on speed/Special endurance days and submax or no weight training at all on tempo or off days."
I agree. How bout this…? keep in mind that in Olympic lifting the weight comes in specific increments of lets say 5 pounds (I know that is not exact) and the body if taxed may be 3-4 pounds weaker and also tech. plays a large role. Whereas sprinting if you CNS is taxed you may run a few tenths slower and that would be a greater negative effect than an olympic weightlifter not being able to lift that extra 2 pounds.
I dunno I may be wrong just an idea I had. Sorry if I did not explain well.
cool. makes alot more sense!! 
I am aware of that just as plyometrics are a trap for young players shit, I don’t even feel like I’ve done any work, think I’ll do them till I feel tired :eek: What I was saying is that personally I find them less draining, this may be due to where I place them in my schedule, loads lifted and style. It could also be due to me having the CNS activation of a sloth and not being able to ‘fire’ to the same extent as a more FT dominant athlete.
James, can’t wait for your site to be up and running although I see you have done a DB and created new names for some of the sections
Quick, first off, edit out that ‘sorry’. This is a medium which exists as an avenue for the exchange of ideas, and yours are great.
As far as where to draw the line, percentage 1RM wise, with respect to when the CNS impact/fatigue comes into play with the lifting, I would be more inclined to suggest that the athlete really go by feel.
Of course this is very ambiguous, however, when referencing percentages, especially for the Olifts and powerlifts, I believe the Prilepin’s chart is a great organization of parameters. Beyond the concept of a certain percentage range yielding various physiological adaptations, I feel that cognitive awareness is vital. Just as you stated, technique among a host of other factors, contributes to a great deal of variability/gradation from athlete to athlete. Thus, percentages only get us so far.
I do feel, however, that percentages may be perceived in more of an absolute light when referencing sprinting. Of course, percentages mean very little unless the athlete in question possesses a high enough level of physical preparedness so as to express somewhat consistent expressions of motor abilities.
Done a DB.LOL
Not sure where I should post this. I just put this together.
Note how straight the arms are until the bar has pretty much passed the hips. You must use all the leverage required by the legs and shoulders before DROPPING (or probably more likely pushing yourself) under the bar. TC
That was a great lift by Chemerkin (SP?) for the world record that Ronnie Weller had just broken on the previous lift before. The look on Weller’s face was sheer disapointment.
On the point about using full leverage, I have found from personal experience that if a lifter concentrates on full extension and understands the rythym of the lift that the body will actually slingshot under the bar because there is no were else to go becuase maximal extension has been applied and once gravity starts to act on the bar the lifter who is in full extension will get the reactive pull under better and faster. Also without full extension the athlete is missing the full benefits of the lift.
At this level a slight lean back helps as well sometimes!
Not necessarily for a beginner, however…