Lactate Threshold Training

I have a girl, coming from 800 backgroud…this year , focus on 400h and 400…training going well, but now I’ve seen after the first 2 races some problems with the final…(not great weather both days…rain and 12 degrees 1 day, and strong wind the other.)
Got good improvements at 30-to 120 m, and strenght power and also work capacity…still usure if it is a speed issue, or a endurance one.
Typical training week:
m:Speed+ bounds + weights
tu:Tempo + hurdle drills ( low int)+ circuits
wed:jog + massage
thu:Hurdle rythm and some SE ( 2x250)+ weights
fri:Tempo ( short one)
Sat: 400m rythm ( like 2x200+200) and Str endurance

Typical comp week:
Sun: race ( 400h and 4x400 this week)
Mon: tempo /hurdle mob
TUe: speed + weights
Wed: jog/tempo + massage
THU: hurdle starts /5h + w
Fri: rest
satù: w up
sun: race

Sometimes I feel I unload too much during comp weeks…
I’ve spend a lot of times fixing hurdles tech, since she is 29 and never competed except 2 races 11 years ago…, and also fixed posture, strenght and running mech…so, maybe my work will pay in the future…now she is more apushing athlete and not a backside /pulling one like she used to be, arms are more controlled and so on.
Trainig times were good, just a bit slow over 150 and more…( all times, back foot leaving the ground)
30: 4"00
60: 7"65
80: 9"97
120: 15.1 ( start to lose new "sprint posture)
150: 19"4
200+200: 27"1-27"5
first 5 h 26"4( t down times)
So spending more time on the endurance /finishing part ( 8H, 8h +150m, or 500-400-300 on the flat…2x3x150 split runs and so on), or leaving it all like that, and continue to pursuee speed during off weeks?
First 2 races: 400m57"77 ( very sloww first 200m, but after a 100m and headwind on opposite straight, 28…)
400h: 62"82 ( used 25 insted of 24, and opposite leg…we spent 6 months working on havein ambidexterity…with goodd results…H5 28"2…so way off target times…but she had a bit of anxiety)

After a really bad 300 strat of the season I am wondering what to do.
Sat I ran and my legs were still a bit tired on thuesday.
Today i am planning to do a really low key meet to do some speed work 100+200.

In 3 weeks i have a meet for my team, there i like to run decent.

I am a bit in the dark about what to do…

Planning for now is:
we: 100+200 +weight
thi: rest/massage
fri: tempo (weight)
sat: 2x200+200
su rest

mo short speed, 30~80 weight
th: 4x150
wed:; rest
th: 2x300+150 or 300+150 /200+150 (weight?)
fr rest
sat warmup/warmdowm
sun: 400(race)

mo tempo(4x150/5x200) + weight
th: rest/ massage
we short speed + weight
th 300+250+200+150 (15’)
fr rest
sa: warmup maybe some starts up to 50m
su : 400-4x100-4x400

So any help/sugestions would be really appreciated(KK:cool:).

Your spread and substance of training looks pretty good to me, from a 400m perspective. Sometimes the body just needs time to respond. Concentrate on how you run: look for your rhythm. Panic slowly :slight_smile:

KK, you’d still suggest spilt repas at race pace like 330+150 during comp season?better early in the week like race on sun, split on tuesday , speed on thu/fri and another race on sat/sun, or flip it up?

My 400 boy made state finals in 3 events. 4 x 800 (2:00 split 1 st leg), 400 (49.8), 4 x 400 (49.0 anchor).

This coming week tuesday is our league championship. He will run 2 rounds of 200, 4 x 200 anchor, 400, and 4x400 anchor. Thursday is the county championship. He qualified in 200 and 400 plus all 3 relays. This meet he can do what ever events we choose.

June 4 th (2 wks) from today) is state finals. To be competitive he will have to run low 48. He will probably be in a slower heat as well. I think for Thurs I will have him run 3 rounds of 200 and open 400. From then on til june 4 take it easy with jogging and tempo.

Kk what are your thoughts on the race selections and the week leading to finals?

Early in the week during Comp phase. But honestly, you need to appraise the needs of your athlete(s) and prescribe the appropriate workouts to address shortcomings which will always and most precisely be identified when they race. Sometimes of course it’s better to let them race themselves into shape, but if it doesn’t happen then you need to address the problem with specific training. The issue then, given you (may) have a race at the end of the week is: Do you run both reps are race pace, or do you tempo the opening rep and blast the back-up segment of the split-run? That’s a case by case situation. It’s another reason Charlie hated to be prescriptive when it is a “sight unseen” scenario, like this.

She has her main problem running an opening 200m too slow in competitions…and in a strange way ( she has been an 800m runner, also competing in 1500m for severla years) her 27 ,5 1st 200 could be a 13,3 + 14,2, a bit different from what Iìd like…the same on the 400h, slow start…but her…a mental issue as well ( training…24 steps for H1…in her 2 races…always 25, and leading with the right…whereas all the training is done with a left leg lead , at least for first 4 hurdles or more…)
I like split runs, but during comp period I’d use a more controlled 1st rep and blast the second…and always have to have alook at her runnning form …otherwise, she ends up lrunning ,like a miler…

In the last week before state finals ( Saturday ), 200+200 in 24/24. I was happy. Hoping for mid 48 Saturday. Last week he ran 22.3 200. Quite an improvement from 23.6 in April. Will report back Saturday night.

Goodjob ESTI: That’s the kind of post it’s a pleasure to read. Good luck at the weekend. :slight_smile:

With temperature high near 90 and humid, he ran ok. Not a season best. He ended up in 8 th place, enough for a medal! 50. 19 fat. He. Came through in 23 and faded at the end.

Season is finished here (or at least I can’t find any more meetings), so after a couple of weeks “resting” I was thinking on how can I schedule my next season. I would be happy of any input you can provide (especially kitkat1, since I have “followed” his system, and I plan on doing a first complete season now :slight_smile: ).

After 3 years without competing, I went back to track this season with only a few months of training. Surprisingly to me I did pretty well (for my standards) in 100-200m getting closer than expected to my PB. For 400m I lacked training and (specially) rhythm. The main problems that I felt while running where:

  • Pain in tendons (hamstrings in general + aquiles).
  • Crossing legs.
  • Rhythm.

For the first 2 I have to visit a physiotherapist. I tried with some massages and stretching but… it even got worse. It felt like the muscles were to tight and instead of stretching the muscles I was pulling the tendons, which made the feeling worse, specially for the hamstrings.

I was planning on scheduling the training for a target time of sub-48.00 (my PB is 48.37). My PB in 100-200 are 10.93 and 22.15. Since I would try a (aprox) 22.8-24.8, I thought of starting with a short-to-long approach to the 400 and then move to 2 “kitkat1 programs”. Even though I made times close to my PB, I have been running consistently slower while training (eg: my pb in 150m is 15.8 and the sb has been 16.5), and when I tried to run with the rhythm of a 400… I was going way too slow (I was pretty good at knowing the pace) so I thought that a S-L approach would help me improving the speed for the next phases. Does that makes sense?

As for how to schedule the macro cycles, I was thinking on 1 month of pre-season work, and then 12 weeks cycles (GPP+SPP/transition).

Even though I could start directly with a GPP, I prefer to have some time of recovery, specially from the tendon “problem”. How would you schedule the pre-season?

I have several doubts in general with the program, but I will ask them later, when I am closer to the program :). They’re mostly related with the intensity of the sessions.


I am honored to finally join this tread :slight_smile: I have read trough it 2 times now but still I have some questions for kitkat. (or other who can reply)

  1. Is there an example of the training program in season? I would be great with an example of a program in a week with a competition and a week without competition!

  2. Inn GPP and SPP program there are sometimes 2 very hard days back to back. Like day 4 and 5 in spp.
    Day 4:4x40-20-20 +300-250-180-150-120
    Day 5: 2x2x200m

Are u sure most people can handle that? and get benefit from session 5 when already very tired from day 4?

for more on kk’s 400 plan

play with the distance, for me cutting volume in +/- half kept me running. More breaks me up.
e.g. to make thing more easy for your guys take a day 4 :4x40-20-20 +300-250-180-150-120; 5 tempo/rest.; day6 the 2x2x200
or just skip some runs

Thanks Pindaman.

Do u remember how kitkats program could be adjusted to 800m?
I remember there was some info about it, but the tread is so huge and I could not find it.

I guess its just to add some volume to the interval sessions and reduce the speed abit?

What is actually the benefit/key of kit kats program?
Is it the weekly structure of 2 “hard”, 1 easy, “3 hard” 1 easy?
The type of sessions?
The variation from week to week?

I think Contrast and Recovery. Add in the Intensive Tempo (6x200 in comehome pace of last 200 of your goal 400m) and the Extensive Tempo (3x3x300m jog recoveries) as well as emphasis on “lift” (Triple Extension/Step-Over and Down action) during Speed Endurance and Max Vel development sessions. It’s a package deal but there is a Balance between High Intensity and Low Intensity as well as an insistence by me on “Adequate” Recovery at every step of the program construct.

Sorry I have been off-line for ages, moving house, takjing leave from work to renovate etc etc.

thanks Kit Kat.
Some time offline is also good for our mental health :slight_smile:

My english is not perfect. Can you explain what you mean about contrast? contrast like u have a wide vairiaty of training sessions with different stimuli in the 6 week period?

Would you say its possible to run a decent 800m on your program?
How would you have adjusted the program to a 400/800m runner?
Is this program more suited for very fast athletes (high maxV) or can also people with a slower 100m time also benefit from your program?

Thanks again for replying and good luck with renovating.

Volle, you have the contrast idea correct. The body needs constant variety of stimuli. You cannot just change the distance. You must also change the rhythm and that comes from a variation in intensity. Chaos Theory has much to recommend itself when it comes to forcing adaptation :). Change is good. Constant change is better. But rehab and regeneration are imperative. Ultimately they will enable progress (by helping to avoid injury and thereby facilitating continuity of training and adaptation) along a higher pathway where the higher intensity and loads at higher intensity become crucial factors in reaching world standard performances.

As for running 800 of this programme. I think a lot more long aerobic runs might be necessary and a few more thresh-hold runs as well. But I would be interested to know how Jarmila Kratochvila - the world women’s 800m recordholder - managed to run around 11-flat for 100m and a world record for 800m. It suggests long runs may not have been much of a factor in her preparation back in 1983.


The constant change in stimuli/intensity sounds logical. To prevent that the body gets “immune” against the training stimuli.

From what I have read about 400/800m training they dont do much long runs. Long runs for them have a function of just recovery. A few fast runs or threshold intervalls, but much less than the 800/1500m runner.
For a 400m/800m runner high volume of threshold running says to be damageus.

Their goal is to increase the spesific speed endurance with increasing the volume of specific/fast track training, reduce recoveries.

Its explained by coach Renato Canova in this tread:

What sort of formulas would you suggest to apply to 55-59 sec high school girls?

The base formula I use for 400m is

400m = (200m x 2) x 1.1

Work backwards for 55sec

200m = 25 sec

The first 200 is run 1-2 seconds therefore 26-27 sec
The second 200m is run 2 sec slower therefore 28-29 sec

Without knowing the athlete, the 59 sec runner is probably not 2 seconds slower over 200m then the 55 runner, but lacks the general conditioning. Without seeing and knowing more that is guess.