you probably saw there was quite a bit of discussion about this a few pages back which was influenced by a few factors (Koch’s 300m pre 400m WR, athletes running 2nd SE reps better than 1st etc) however if you have nothing to compare it with in training and given him being a good rounds runner I would (and realise this is only my view) go for a 200m the day before say early - mid afternoon.
Thanks for the reply. My question was based on the discussions earlier!
At this stage our training programme - re kitkat’s - consists of a HARD training session on Thursday and SPECIFIC on Friday. The times on Friday is good, in spite of the training the day before.
Based on this and on the discussions, it seems that my athlete will be ‘better off’ the second day when we do something ‘constructive’ the previous day. However - I’m scared of a 400m as part of the warm up OR a full 400m the day before. The 200m or even a 250m FEELS like a better solution. (Up to now, my athlete did a warm up with ‘run through’s’ and 1 x 50m or 60m the day before the race.)
We will try it in 4 weeks time! Will post the results of my ‘investigation’! After that, we will know what to do - before my athlete leaves for races in Europe.
i tend to agree in the 200m race the day before for your guy - however, would you send him out Hard - ie pb chasing? or a Solid effort - say 0.5sec off what he is expecting, say 97% effort - focusing on relaxation, form and a full run through the line?? Just wondering, you don’t want him to blow his hammies up the day before the 400m!!
Your advice sounds good. Will focus on that. Thanx!
We always did some race modelling in the rhythm of the race a day before competition.
We did not generate much lactic in the process and all runs were done with comfortable recovery periods.
I would add that coming into an important Race, I always prescribed At Least One Rest Day, then Race Model Day, Then Race on the next day.
If we were entering a multi-round tournament, then almost invariably I implemented Two Days off the track (no legs, no lactic work) rather than just the one day.
Then the Race Modelling was to regain the race rhythm and the proprioception for entering and exiting the bends on the specific race track.
I remember now … as my athlete raced/was in form a LONG time ago, I completely forgot about the RM!
I assume the RM would be a better ‘bet’ than the ‘ordinary’ 200m??!! Did you do a full 100m (50m before the bend, 50m out)?? 3 x 100m in total (3 bends)??
Hey Guys!
I wondering if anyone has any good SE workouts? I´m just coming back from a overused hamstring so at the moment I´m not able to run faster then 85%. I´ve done 8*200 @ 30-32 with 1.30 min rest and I found that quite easy. My event is the 400 hurdles.
I´m also a bit concerned of my lack of sprinting. That is something I need to improve (current PB 11.77). Any advice or experience is welcome!
Thanks/ Erik
Hey Totti! I guess when your not able to run faster, this workout is actually very good. When I came back from with a sore Hamstring (from a little hamstring and hip problem) this was actually the only workout I could handle. I did the 6x200 workout that has been talked over a lot in this discussion. Kitkat made me see the importance and the effect of the 6x200 with jog in between, and in case of an injury, this is the type of workout i do when i came back. First time i was able to do the 200s in 40 sec. 2 days later it was 30 sec.
I must say that i talked about this workout with my physio and he gave me a green light that i was already recoverd enough to handle these ‘faster’ runs (with faster i mean faster than a simple jog when you’re havin’ an injury…).
So my advice to you: make sure you’ve rested enough and it’s SAFE to run. Then, i guess for an overused hamstring this kindda workout is pretty good. Also check the tempo workouts that Charlie gave us in the GPP video…I think that one is great to. But don’t go for speed, just go for a good feeling…
Yes, that sort of thing. Most runs were at least 50m buildup and about 70m to 100m in the rhythm of the race, depending on what you wanted. We used to mostly work just one corner at a time, rather than the entire 100m arc. The appropriate pace is established well before hitting the bend and is maintained throughout the critical sector of the bend, with the athlete then easing down. The keys I look for were triple extension (tall left side, no collapse toward infield), hands up to shoulder level in front, open running stride (carrying mechanics from the straight and replicating exactly through the turn).
Hello Everyone…
I have some concerns… For the first time in my life.i was about to have a full base training for this current track season. I am a 400hurdler, but I run the 800 and 400 as well.0
I started training may 14th of last year for my season, doing about 25 miles a week and from there I progressed into sprints and plyometrics. I lifted and I dieted to prepare myself for the fall training i was going to do.Also I transferred schools so my coaching is different and so are the training styles.
Our coach has a system of long intervals. On mondays we do short sprints no long that 60m(in the fall it was hill sprints).On tuesday we do long intervals. So each new cycle begins with 600’s and the the next week 500’s and then all the way down to 300’s. Then wednesday is a rest day, thursday is a short sprint day(70-150).then friday is faster shorter intervals…Something like 3x200x3…
On october 2nd i ran 53.1 sec time trial and I am a 48 second 400m…I was devestated and people said it had a lot to do with the mileage i did in the summer and no speed work. I keep training with the hopes that things would get better.
In december we had 800 time trial in which we ran 1:30 for 600 meters and then kicked at the end…I ran 2:04 which was 2 sec p.r me and it gave me some hope. I ran over the break and rested a little before I came back to school and january for our indoor season.
I am in the best shape of my life.I am stronger in the weight room and on the track and I feel great…Yet,my results arent showing it. My first race was 800 m and I ran 2:06 and I died horribly at the end,and I had a 51 second split for the 4x4. My second meet was yestersay I ran the 600m. I ran 1:24 last year off basically no training and this year with training I ran 1:26.17. my splits were 25,28, and 33…The 53 for the first 400 feel so easy and the last 170 i feel apart and faded so badly!! And on my 4x4 anchor leg, I ran 51 again!!
If I am in the best shape of my life, why am I not running well like I feel I should?It is really discouraging and I dont get it…Can anyone give me some idea…?
Maybe you haven’t quite adapted to your training and it has worn you down. Hopefully after a period of regeneration and rest (perhaps the best regeneration) you’ll come good.
The other thought, which I hate to even suggest, is that perhaps not enough of your tough training has been specific enough to the requirements needed for racing to carry across from training to competition.
If I were you, I’d be contemplating the performance criteria for a good race and then I’d be looking back over your training logbook and checking for how much time and movement specific training you’ve done.
Maybe your coach has carried the GPP stuff for too long and you’ve fallen into that “dynamic stereotype” which can be a bastard of a thing, but which is pretty common.
It’s not surprising that you’re not putting it together in your races. You just began your season, and you should be pretty far away from putting together your endurance for the 800m, considering how good your 400m is doing.
So I though I would update my progress if anyone is intressted.
Today I ran 6200 with a average of 29,5, rest 1.30 min, witch is about 75-80% next tuesday I was planing if everything feels okey to do a 8200 same pace. Two weeks from now 6200 all sub 28 and the week after that 8200 sub 28. Thoughs? Right now I´m doing Olylift, deadlifts and som rehab before this SE wo. Would it be to rough if I did the same sort of planing if times drop to 26-27? (85%) If I execute this well what would be the next step?
why are you plannning on going up to 8 instead of staying at 6 and dropping time? There will be a HUGE difference going from 6-8 as far as lactate goes as I’m sure you noticed on reps 5 & 6 compared to 3 & 4.
If you want a volume variation what about 3 x 3 x 300?
Yes. You need to start moving down.
Anyone who thinks more volume will compensate for less speed is kidding themselves. Bite the bullet, get into the rhythm of your race and get used to it.
From a NZ forum
[i]Just to add to that story of meaty 400m runners.
Michael Johnson one session:
10x200m all under 21secs followed by 3x400m under 45secs.
INCREDIBLE![/i]
My athletes would have needed more than a day rest in between every rep!!!
from everything hart or johnson ever said thats some deluded johnson groupie’s fantasy workout.
Not even close to reality. If you post on that site be sure to tell whoever posted this to put down the crack pipe.