I don’t have the patience to keep trawling through all the old log booklets I kept for athletes back in the middle ages (80s-90s) but the only 300m time trial I did find for my best male 400m - recorded at the end of a block of GPP in the first week of June of 1989 was 33.41 hand-timed on a wet track.
Not very impressive considering he was about to go to Europe, but we had decided winning Com Games in January 1990 would require a lengthy buildup which would mean not really peaking for the Euro circuit in 89.
Rightly or wrongly, he went to Europe with heavy legs but still came home after 8 x 400m races all under46sec and ranked 3rd on the grand prix. More importantly the huge strength-endurance base we figured would be needed for him to win Coms was not eroded.
Remember he was coming into a Com Games schedule of 4x400m rounds in 28hrs. We could/should have done a better job of Europe perhaps, but easy to say that now. Our thinking back in 89 was that he wasn’t ready to go 44 in Europe and again in January.
Anyway, to get back to the point, I don’t think your guy should be concerned not breaking 33sec for a 300m in the middle of GPP, if he’s sticking close to the reps/sets we have talked about in this forum. My best guy couldn’t break 33 either, but nor would you expect that of him under all the circumstances.
kk
PJ mentioned something in the earlier post about indoors running, How would you taper a 400 for the indoor season. Is it different from all the discussion on this thread? Would you still do the fast 200 and fast 300 and 200+200 and so on…
I never prepared anyone specifically for indoor. The best guy I worked with got a bronze at world indoor and the best woman got fourth at the 400m off the work described in this thread. But I don’t know how the medallists’ training differed. Maybe they were just superior talents or had more experience running indoors or had better programs - or all three.
But the distance is the same. I do think the ability to accelerate (to establish the pole position and/or to fight off a challenge) in the indoor 400m is an asset.
So I’d be mixing up the longer rhymic 200s and 300s with some of that nasty short backup stuff, like 60, 50, 40, 30, 20 and even 10m bursts, backing up off the longer depletion rep.
Just my opinion, but when I was actively coaching competitors (rather than working as a sounding board to coaches, as I tend to do now) the indoors didn’t offer much prizemoney and it wasn’t any sort of a priority.
The year my top guy won his indoor medal he went to the worlds as his holiday before beginning the long preparations for his major outdoor ambition. (Maybe that’s why he did drag a medal indoor. lol :o )
I am a 400m hurdler I have always trained in the winter with typical lactate endurance sessions of 6x300m or 450,350 250 (6mins recov then 12 min between sets and then) 350, 250 150 again with 6 mins, they were killer sessions running the 6x300s off 3 mins and 12 between sets all in about 41 sec then as we got into feb march we would do 6 x 300m off 6 mins with 15 in bet sets and run them in 38-39. The lactic acid build up is huge. Having read a lot of Charlies threads though and his forum reviews I have turned this on its head. I used to never touch speed work till April by which time it was so much of a shock to the system I would pull muscles. I am now working on achieving maximum speed and alternating with tempo days. I am also doing weights on the speed work days to give the CNS the best chance to recover. I will do this for the next 12 weeks taking me to April. I only do special endurance once per week running 2x 300m or 2 x 350m with 15 mins recovery. This short to long approach is to enable me to have more speed reserve when I come to racing over 400m hurdles. What are your thoughts on this approach
His PB in a competition is 32,2 (HT) … the electronic time system did not work … ONLY for that race! It was a few years ago, when we trained differently. The biggest difference - now my athletes can handle rounds when it counts. At that stage, my athlete’s strong point was the once-off race.
The answer to the second question - Kitkat pointed out that the GPP in this programme prepares an athlete for the last part of the 400m race and NOT for a 300m sprint. I NEED this Forum … somebody (usually Kitkat!) has to tell me ALL THE TIME to ‘relax’ and to ‘hang in there’ - I am on the right way to Osaka!!
Thanks for the ‘explanation’. My first impression after the race was that we have accomplished our goal with the race … to see where we are. I had the same reasons as yours why the times were not good.
It was only the next morning, after the race, when my athletes started asking the usual ‘why’-questions! Especially my ‘good athlete’ who believes that even in the GPP, he HAS to beat everybody.
I’ll stick to OUR (mine, Kitkat’s, etc!!) original plan!!!
Kit Kat,
You said that getting vertical is trainable. How could I address this issue in my training if I feel im “sinking” or losing my quality of contact at the end of my race?
For Sure I answered this same question ages ago in this thread and I reckon it may have been you who asked it last time as well.
But to repeat the answer, essentially it’s a case of developing strength and using it. Applying “strength” to “get vertical” in the home straight of a 400m is wrapped up in mechanics and how you use them. Working your arms (hands up to the eyes if needs be) and getting that triple extension through hips, knee and ankle are a big part of it. Maintaining a good quality of contact (ie, not over-striding) and good rhythm are also major factors.
Training for that involves learning what it feels like to achieve triple extension in the fog of fatigue, something you can attempt to simulate in training by doing a long rep(s) as a depletion effort, followed shortly afterwards by something quite explosive, such as a 60m flying sprint.
You may also care to try developing power-endurance by rotating reps of sprint, sled, high alternate-leg skipping over 60m to 80m. Five or six sets will get anyone going and let’s see how high you can keep those 80m alternate skips (take-offs) going.
Of course it is said by some coaches (inc me) that 400m runners come home with their arms. The arms are like pistons in a car. If they slow down or lose motor pattern, so do the legs (wheels). So in the gym, do your bench and power-cleans by all means, but you may find some sets of boxing sparwork or pad work will enable you to keep those arms swinging. We used to go 2 sets of 10 x 30sec punch, 15-30sec rest.
TV footage of the top guy I worked with/for taken from behind showed him running the home straight to win the Com Games 400. Although he is a white athlete, the back of his shoulders looked quite black - because of the blood filling those hard-working muscles involved in keeping his arms punching to the line. It is a video I’ve used to show doubters how hard the arms work in a 44s performance.
But you can tell a lot about the event just by examining the photos I’ve attached here, especially the ones of Tonique winning in Athens 2004. All the women finalists really using their arms well to maintain their stride rate and rhythm but this also has the effect of getting them a bit airborne at toe-off.
Two steps from the blocks in a Sydney Oly 400m qualifying heat. Freeman accelerates Hard to around 50m (Michael Johnson advised her to take it to 60m) before easing into auto-pilot.
BRILLIANT! This is a ‘text book’ picture!! Look at the angles … foot, knee, the back to leg in one straight line, etc. Something to strive for with my own athletes.
Interesting to read MJ’s comment - 60m rather than 50m. What is the ideal? Will it differ from athlete to athlete?
A happy new year to all … especially the ‘Lactate Threshold’-readers! And congratulations on your birthday, Kitkat … if it is correctly stated on your CF profile! I wish you a BRILLIANT and BUSY 2007!!
If I remember correctly the GDR coaches would test the 400m runners over flying 30m and calculate their average time. They would then calculate 90% of that as their top speed to reach at the 80m point of the 400m race and to then maintain into the back straight. By all means let me know anyone (especially kitkat) if the festive booze has saturated my brain and I’m typing crap. All the very best guys for 2007.
Hi buskingbob, you should certainly feel more comfortable at speed with the short to long as opposed to what you used to do. This will enable you to run your speed endurance work as well with higher quality, good luck.
[QUOTE=kitkat1]
Training for that involves learning what it feels like to achieve triple extension in the fog of fatigue, something you can attempt to simulate in training by doing a long rep(s) as a depletion effort, followed shortly afterwards by something quite explosive, such as a 60m flying sprint.
You may also care to try developing power-endurance by rotating reps of sprint, sled, high alternate-leg skipping over 60m to 80m. Five or six sets will get anyone going and let’s see how high you can keep those 80m alternate skips (take-offs) going.
QUOTE]
KK
Can you explain what you mean by long reps as a depletion effort.
Also your power endurance session—would this be 5 x (sprint+sled+skipping) over 60/80m ?
what rest would you use between sets and between sprint/sled/skipping. what weight is the sled ?
depletion effort is just my clumsy terminology to attempt to describe depletion of “energy”. I used that term early as a young coach and it’s stuck. But essentially it is a run (or series of runs/efforts) which will be just enough to fatigue the athlete. In a two-rep split set, the emphasis for the performer would be to produce the more significant effort on the second rep.
On the so-called power endurance sets/sessions everything varied according to the age and training age and abilities of the athlete, and how they managed the session on that day.
The poundage was never great, just enough to enable the runner to feel that he had to apply a bit more force through the distance to keep the sled moving at a pretty quick pace.
I used to emphasise that the athlete set his/her pelvis into a neutral position and kept it there once they could got into their running. Some runners found that with the extra resistance they could more easily “feel” the position of their pelvis and the importance the position of the pelvis played in helping or hindering (if there was anterior rotation) the sled-run.
Reps and sets were mostly based around the idea of 1-6 reps, 1-6 sets. That seemed a pretty safe and effective guideline to lifting in the gym too.
The sequence was (rightly or wrongly) heavy-to-light: so one set went 2x60m sled , 2x80m high skip (alternate take-off foot on every third step, but you could do them every alternate step), and finally 2x80m build-up sprints (but these were definitely sub-max pace).
Recovery varied but was always casual walkback between all reps. Recovery between sets was never less than 10minutes and varied according to the weather as much as anything. If it was extremely hot, they took more recovery time.
The athletes seemed to like the session.
And I felt that within the context of my own program, the session played a role (like all the other sessions).
