A session i learned from Middle distance coach, peter coe,
200 run at 1500m pace
walk/jog back over same distance + 20m (220)
220 effort
240 recover
240 effort
260 recover
260 effort
280 recover
280 effort
300 recover
300 effort done at 400m pace
each effort in between is a division of the 1500m pace and the 400m pace.
So what is happening is, each effort gets faster and longer with progressively longer recoverys.
once this is mastered, the following is in place:
200m 1500pace
180 recover (continue around the track)
220 effort
160 recover
240 effort
140 recover
260 effort
120 recover
280 effort
100 recover
300 effort in 400 pace.
Here, the efforts get longer and faster but with diminishing recovery. Hence, leading into what a race really is, efforts with no recovery. It also teaches you, that no matter how fatigued you are, you can still keep going faster and faster - good for that last 100m of a 400! and for doing multiple rounds perhaps?
The session worked a treat for me. Athough, i never did 400’s, i did 8’s. But, the principle can remain the same! Say, 600m time and 200m doing say 100m - 200m in 10m blocks? or so?
The following article, by the man who influenced Peter Coe’s training idea’s, has details on the training idea’s of a well known exercise physiologist - Gerschler
I think the Gerschler ideas can be used very effectively as tempo training. I have mentioned this to Charlie previously and he thought that the 3, 6, and 18 second add-on’s to the 100m, 200m and 600m pb’s respectively may make then a bit fast for tempo for athletes with slower pb’s.
The times could be calculated to 75% - as suggested by the CF tempo plan. I think that the recovery to 120bpm within 90s would ensure that the athlete is only doing what they are physically capable of at the time.
Well, makes sence for a out of shape off season 400 runner! Perhaps even just getting into the 400’s for the 1st time, having like they said, a fair bit of time off - although if a major race is coming up in 400m - speed work, speed endurance, strength work ect need to be done.
For start of season getting into shape, sounds like a plan? It only goes for a short while.
As someone who has used both programs I think the hart /guthrie program lets one run well because the athlete never has his cns totally taxed at any one time. So on race day he feels fresh no matter what time of year. As the season progresses the volume drops the rest drops and the times drop but never to a point where the cns is being undully taxed. This I imagine is how the legs gain a little more freshness for the end of the season.Speed at least with Guthrie was adressed using 150 speed makers.As I said earlier the fastest WO other than the speedmakers on coach Guthries program and the one we followed was 3x200@+02-200walk . For us that was 24sec 200’s This was done the week of NCAAS.
Now we had virtually the same results using a program based on KK's as well as others training. With this we would sometimes not race very well mid season because ( just my thoughts KK would know better) during the week we had flooded our system with lactic acid on one day and taxed our cns on another. even with tempo/pool /recovery days in between the body was still not recovered enough to run well. This was ok because later in the year when we ran wo's with high speed rates and max recovery at a very low volume level we would run fine by race day. Because the stress to the body was not as severe as a midseason training block.( Our wo 10 -14 days out from NCAA's was 1x200@22.5 rest 20min then 1x300 allout usually 34high-35point on an indoor track. Off that wo you are quaranteed to run from 48.5 -47.5)
Both programs are equally succesfull,as coaches with greater runners than mine can atest. I just dont know if anyone has used both programs? My one other comment would be this. With kk,s and other speed oriented programs I always wondered how many hard speed endurence sessions as described by kk and others could our guys tolerate before we started to see dimminishing returns. With the guthrie program you really did not have to worry as much because the wo's were so much less intensive. Just my 2 cents
My observations of the way I’ve operated the concurrent program: everyone always felt fresh on race days, even the top female who raced “the card” every Saturday during GPP which had to be scheduled during the domestic season because of the late finish to the European GP season.
Why: I think, apart from modifying the program to give her no leg weights on the Friday, she, like the others on the program really didn’t clog up their week(s) with non-specific tempo training.
Instead of tempo volume as the buffer between days of high speed or high lactic generation sessions, I just gave the athletes a warm-down to conclude the previous session and then “A Rest Day”. Now that rest may include a gymnastics session (stretching, tumbling, strengthening of the small muscles around hip/groin/torso). BUt basically the legs got a much-needed rest. And there were Two Rest Days scheduled every week, no matter the training phase.
Most coaches I’ve spoken to have told me they have tried to program two speed development days and two endurance-type days into their micro-cycle, be that a one-week cycle or a 10-day cycle.
And the thing common to most programs I’ve looked over is that the closer you get to races which are important the more rest you receive - which tends to bring up the sprinting speed as a consequence of restored function.
I’m not being generally negative about tempo. I know 99% of coaches program at least two tempo sessions per week. But for my program I feel it would have been over-kill. kk :eek:
How hard is the tempo anyway? Exposure to tempo should be such that, even though the quality (density) and quantity rises for some time, it never feels any harder- always slightly under the athlete’s capacity.
Where I do see a problem longer term is to do 2 speed and 2 SE sessions as they must be back to back twice a week, so usually you must use a 2/1 intensification schedule where a 3/1 schedule is possible if you have 2 speed and one SE session per week. If you multiply out the sessions over a whole season, you’ll find you come out approx the same number for SE intensifying sessions and MORE intensifying Speed sessions overall.
For me, the main reason to choose two days off per week is travel to practice (is the travel worth the benefit in terms of looseness and regeneration?) though individual athlete preferance can play a role. Some of my athletes used five sessions and some (prob most) used six, perhaps influenced by the presence of on-site therapy.
Hi Charlie,
I think you’re probably right and if I had been smarter or more aware in any case that’s what I Could have done. But I didn’t.
I was most concerned that the 400 required (or seemed to) longer sprint distances for special speed endurance and an emphasis on taking care of that final 100m, so I decided to go 2 + 2 per week, although the loads changed (some of it was hill sprints, some of it was composite sessions, some of it 6x200 etc).
I was concerned about the hammering the legs were taking and I just felt I needed to get them off their legs, so sometimes we put in a pool session but that was mostly instead of a lactic session.
For years I had attempted to design and follow a relatively sophisticated undulating model with varying intensity and volume fitting a timetable and a graph. But I could not make the athletes fit the model, so I abandoned the model rather than the athletes. [You know I’m not much on graphs ]
Could a program be used similar to that of Nic Bideau?
From reading articles on Craig Mottram and Eloise Wellings, they continue the same training regardless of the time of year, and then taper a week or so before a big race.
“there is no ‘winter base’ and ‘summer speed’ seasons. We try to follow the same plan until a week before a race when we wind down, do a faster track session, some strides and then race. If you have the base fitness there it doesnt take long to gather some track speed. Nic calls it ‘topping up’, we are constantly going back to 'top up our aerobic fitness. I think this is where a lot of people go wrong, they will race really well at the start of the track season because they are coming out of a lot of winter training so they are fit regardless, but then they fail to go back throughout the season and ‘top up’.”
Of course, these guys run 1500/5k, so it is slightly different. But a similar principle could be applied. I know it goes against to whole GPP, SPP etc etc. But it could be something similar in which Sanya uses.
And from memory Sanya trains with Wariner and Hart. And although Hart’s philosophy is to train slower to be faster etc, it is very similar to this principle. The sessions seem to stay the same throughout the whole season - get a little faster and cut down recovery times closer to the season. But that base is kept their the whole season, and they continually go back to ‘top up’ by doing their 200 reps (for example).
This is the problem that was exemplified this year by many of the current Australia sprinters. Good times going into comm games over 100 and 200. Showing good form, and then come comm games they had gone from 10.1/10.2 -> 10.5/10.6 and over 200m 20.3/20.4-> 20.7/20.9. They were ‘dieing’ at the end. They did massive tapers, obviously lots of block work and flat out speed work, without going back to the longer stuff for fear of losing their speed. It is a common problem in Australia really, although they peak for our season, too much speed work done leading into major comps and not enough ‘top up’
But i do believe that Bideau is on to something - and Hart’s design is very very similar in the concept. Obviously this does not work for a 100m runner, but the general idea of it works i believe
Charlie offers you a program that involves never losing the general fitness over the whole year, thats half the point of the tempo work. so the need to top up in terms of general fitness is eliminated.
KK’s program without tempo works because he keeps touching on the general threads every so often (a strength or endurace wedge as he would put it.)
Both work…choose your weapon.
And the endurance wedge, platform whatever you call it, contained sessions like 6x200, 12x150 and 9x300 with a jog recovery component.
This is a type of tempo running, but I would schedule it as a major session rather than as a recovery session.
I suppose it depends on the time you run the reps and on the recovery between the reps/sets, but this work definitely improved tolerance (change in the protein buffers) inside the tissue to acidosis. kk
That (7 in a row in 45sec off a minute) may have flooded my guy, rather than flushed him out.
What was your reasoning, what time of year? we never went more than 3 in a row and the jog 100 recovery took about a minute, maybe 50sec, but then I gave them a lap jog between sets 1-2 and also a lap jog followed by a lap walk between sets 2-3.
Then again not many guys have a 9.7 100m up their sleeve to use as a reserve coming into a 45sec 300m
Really?? Even Ben wasn’t bothered by it in the least. 45sec was far far below his capacity. He did this type of session right into the early meets and occasionally between blocks of comp (build up to phase three) Usually he did the big circuit the rest of the time
well I don’t know. if he did them with BJ that would have been interesting.
I remember “my” guy hated the 9x300 when we started but then did them on his ear after a while.
One session we did on rubber (grass track was flooded) and he ran the first two sets comfortably in the 43sec range. Then he surged through the third set in sub-40 and pulled up without puffing. So maybe you’re right. I mean, as you know, this guy did go sub-32 electronic for 300m.
I think this sort of , what I’d call, “intensive tempo” for want of a better term, would really help in developing the flush and feed vascular network needed to help flush the lactic out of the muscle, into the bloodstream from where it could be filtered and recycled through the liver to make more lactate available for use in creating performance.
Regarding clearance of lactic acid: 3mins post cessation of exercise (post 400m race or simulation rep/set) is about when the acid tops out. In a 400m performer that’s up around 10-20m/mol.
Getting rid of the stuff is obviously important because if it sits in the muscle it causes soreness and tightness the next day(s).
The quicker you can recover from the previous session, the more specific (fast) you can be in the next session. Specificity and continuity may be the major keys to success in any event/sport.
The recommended post 400m race WARMDOWN I’ve read is:
Jog 3-4 laps at a brisk pace to encourage the heart to continue to beat at a fast rate after the race.
Then…3-4 x 100m runthroughs getting steadily Faster: eg 60 to 90% effort;
Then … flushing massage, either with ice, or without;
Then … gentle stretching.
I also think, in fact have proven to my own satisfaction, that some sort of drink composed of a mix of carbos and protein taken within about 5-10mins of the cessation of exercise will make a big difference to how the athlete is able to perform the next day, even the next session (if it’s weightlifting in the PM). kk.
Yes, that’s right but it was fairly easy for him and it would be considered extensive tempo because it’s slower than 75% of his best. he started above 50 sec but soon was doing then in 45- but never any faster soas not to affect the sprint sessions the next day.
We use the 3x3x300 session quite a bit 100 jog recovery btwn reps 5-7min btwns sets. for extensive tempo we may run 47-49.(mostly in gpp) This can later evolve into intensive tempo Ex 3x2x300@38-39 . Or drop times ex 40-39-38.
As to recovering from hard races or hard track sessions.what is your advice or knowledge of the pool post wo. We have tried to send our guys into the pool for 20 min after hard sessions. Or even if we have 2 day meets. (Fri/Sat)qualifiers one day finals the next . We will try and get kids into the pool friday evening, even if it is a few hours post race. Do you have any thoughts on this?
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