Yes, that’s what I meant with my first point. Perfectly clear, thank you!
We can now wait for RandyG’s thoughts/comments! 
Please don’t apologize, I’m aware everyone has their lives and more important obligations than to just sit in from of a computer.
Even though I have occassional problems with training on Sat, I was think that an athlete would be able to manage the denser training week during the 1st 4 weeks as the intensity and/or the intensive nature of the work out is relatively low to moderate. However, from weeks 5-8 I can see the need to allow for rest between the harder days as the intensity, and in some cases, the volumes have increased. Looking over it again I can see how the 2nd block may possess to much loading :o . I can see how the 2-on, 1-off, 3-on, 1-off rhythm would work well from this point on.
In the first block I see the long hills function as a means of developing general end/work cap/stamina. In the 2nd blcok they are commited sprint at an effort of approx 90%+ or committed split runs (don’t always have access to a long hill 
) Actually I find it hard to run hills “easy” or at a moderate effort because the quality suffers greatly. To ensure strong and stable contacts I feel the athlete needs to “motor up” the hills :). Also, the long hills are definitely on grass, short hills not always. I’m not good at assessing hill angles or grade :o as I generally know what I’m looking for in a hill. However, I’m guessing its’ around 30-35 degs
I think I gotcha :)…I’m a big fan a hills because I feel teaches a lot of the right things with little effort on my part. Simply put I try to cue as little as possibly and try to teach various aspects of the run by general means (ie., short hills as a way of teaching force application and arm mechanics during accel.) Furthermore, I feel I’ve developed a great deal of general fitness/work cap from long or repeat hill runs. Lastly, we spend so much time on the track during the cold and rainy months that I try to take advantage of opportunities to run at differents site (parks and hills) and on different surfaces. :o
I do a better job of managing ratios between stress and rest with my short sprinters. However, I really have to watch myself when it comes to the long sprints as tolerance work (middle ground) can be tricky as I found the ability to recover from this kind of work to be very individual.
Roger that…you pic of Merrit really hits that pt home. 
Thanks again…more to come.
Sorry…Bump :rolleyes:
I’ve been reading throught this whole thread for a couple of weeks now and had a few questions. I will be competing at sub-masters level after a long layoff from the sport. There will be no multiple rounds or multiple races in my program, just a few meets in the summer separated a couple of weeks apart. How would some of the training be adjusted for someone who does not have to face tournament conditions? I guess what I mean is some of the lactate training would have for example 4 sets of a certain number of split reps. Is this volume geared towards the rounds preparation or specifically towards the ability to run one 400m fast. Could I do with a reduction in volume?
I like the idea of getting right into the lactate preparation from day one but doubt my ability to complete the 6 x 200m at closing race pace as I will still be conditioning to a certain extent, so i thought I would do 3 GPP cycles over the fall and winter with no indoor racing and use each cycle to do the 200m reps a bit faster. I also thought to kind of ease into the workout I might do something like the following:
wk 1 - 5 x (120m + 50m + 50m)
- rest is 30 seconds, 2’
wk 2 - 5 x (150m + 75m)
- rest is 30 seconds, 2’
wk 3 - (3 x 200m) + (2 x 200m)
- rest is 2’, 5’
wk 4 - (4 x 200m) + (1 x 200m)
- rest is 2’ , 5’
Then ready to do 5 x 200m. Would this be a useful way to dial up to the full workout?
My third question is regarding the pace of the 6 x 200m workout. It has been stated many times that it is done at your closing speed for 400m. The last 200m you come in at speed, so when you do the workout, is it timed form standing or from flying? Would you adjust the time by a second or so to account for the difference or is running them slightly faster than real closing 200m pace part of the training adaptation?
hi Jon,
The repetitive and/or continuous nature of the reps/sets is pretty much all aimed at developing the capacity to sustain an effort over the full 400 metres.
It is almost a side effect, built over time and with the raising of the aerobic threshold to some extent I suspect, that the athlete can recover well enough to be able to cope with rounds.
If you are sub-elite, or coming back to the sport, I definitely would not go further than 5x200m as an ultimate aim.
In the meanwhile, any breakdown of the task either by reducing the distance and perhaps then compounding the splits (eg 150 + 50m) is fine and may even be an improvement if by this process you can introduce more quality of contact and velocity to the session.
But there may also be a shortfall in the sense that 5x200 was placed in the program to help develop the rhythm of the race and the ability to sustain it. So by cutting the 200 down into a split-run, you tend to sacrifice that rhythm.
Then again, if someone is struggling to make the distance, it’s better to cut the rep short when the rhythm drops off or the form falters.
As for the timing of the effort, a rolling/“flying” start takes pressure off the athlete and therefore reduces tension and risk of injury (primarily to the lower leg/achilles tendon area).
An important consideration in 400m training is how much work you can compile (over time) in the rhythm of the race.
The 5x200 is sited in the program with the idea of helping the back-end of the 400m, so there is no emphasis placed on acceleration. It’s just there to try to help the athlete improve his capacity to sustain a run at race rhythm.
Obviously you can get into the race rhyhm earlier by beginning with a moderate acceleration phase, so we use the rolling start, usually three stries or more, stepping it up coming in off the 200m jog recovery between these “effort” reps.
The multiple rep nature of this session should also assist in the athlete’s ability to hang on to a good rolling (last) 300m in the rhythm of the 400m race.
So, for instance, a 44sec male 400 performer may model at 11sec for the first 100m and then hold it together for a “flying” 300m in 33sec for the backend of the race.
Therefore the capacity to lock into a rhythm at 33sec 300 pace, which is bloody fast, comes in very handy, so you need to work on that aspect - even if you’re only trying to run a 60sec 400m.
PS: I appreciate that you have taken the time to read the thread and that you understand the concepts, but I have tried to patiently explain some of those ideas in this post for those members who are not familiar with the ideas due to the fact they do not have a couple of years to read through this monstrosity
kk :eek:
Thanks so much! I really appreciate your thoughtful response
wk 1 - 5 x (120m + 50m + 50m)
- rest is 30 seconds, 2’
wk 2 - 5 x (150m + 75m)
- rest is 30 seconds, 2’
wk 3 - (3 x 200m) + (2 x 200m)
- rest is 2’, 5’
wk 4 - (4 x 200m) + (1 x 200m)
- rest is 2’ , 5’
Then ready to do 5 x 200m. Would this be a useful way to dial up to the full workout?
KK, just another quick question if you have some time. This progression I outlined is not meant only to be a way to ease into the full workout but also as a method of progressive preparation. IE, the 150m + 50m + 50m is meant as a stimulus that once adapted to I should then be able to do 150m + 75m. After that I would hope that prepares me to be able to do a couple of 200’s with 2 minutes rest but will need a longer rest after the first three to be able to complete the workout. Do you think it would work that way? would each session be useful in preparing me for the next if I do it a few times? I’m just not sure if split runs at that 90% velocity is enough of a stimulus to make the next step happen, or if I should just suck it up and go right for the 200’s. I’m just trying to make a smooth transition as I am not in the greatest of shape right now. Would you recommend another way of going about this?
Given that you have a goal in mind, then whatever you do will be progress toward that end. You do what you can, are what you are prepared to tolerate. The sessions you’ve outlined are a good start and will contribute in many ways to developing various performance threads which go to make up a 400m race outcome you would want.
At least you have a plan, so that’s great. But you haven’t chiselled it in stone. So you don’t have to follow it to the letter if you find after a while you can progress faster by bumping up the distance, going directly to the 200m in length.
The option I mostly used was to establish the 200m time zone I wanted the athlete to spend most time in, then we went to that for the first rep and tried to get three reps at that timezone. Then if it was clear that the next rep would be hopeless, we took a longer rest and created a second set; eg: 3x200 in xsec; 10mins rest; 2x200 in xsec. And over time, with contributions at opposite ends of the performance spectrum coming from the shorter speed end and the strength/endurance(aerobic/anaerobic) end, it became possible to deliver the target times and tolerate the extra reps as well as chain them together into a single set of five or six reps at the comehome 200m pace of the ultimate 400m race time objective for the season. kk
Great stuff everyone, thanks for the knowledge. What a great thread.
KK, I’m interested to hear how you would change your program if the athletes were to target 500m races during the indoor season (Jan-Mar). I have a few 400 hurdlers that I’m planning to race over 500s and some 60H races this winter. I’m hoping that this plays into the concurrent nature of KK’s program, with athletes perhaps ready to run a decent 500 or 600 before a great 400, and likewise a decent short sprint race (60H in this case) before a good 200m.
To this point I haven’t deviated much from the GPP setup, but I have put more tempo volume in and less fast reps on the track.
Thoughts, anyone?
Why work on 500 indoors? you have a L-S planning.
i only run 60’s and a few 400 races(i am 400 hurdler) in the winter.
Hello to Charlie Francis community,as a fellow 400m runner thought it was about time to join the legendary lactate thread.
Like many of you I have been trawling through this site for months now trying to learn from people sucha s Charlie and Kitkat.Well finally I’ve taken the plunge and subscibed to their principles because they make sense to me.
Again like all of you I have my own variables to work with.I’m hopefully in the final stages of a 10 month patella tendon injury debacle,off the back of a stress fracture (there goes the last two seasons so something had to change)
As an athlete with a chronic problem of doing too much,and hitting every training day as though its my last I have finally wised up and gone with Charlie’s Gpp template.
Current p’bs well from 2005…200m-23.67 indoors),300m 36.48(indoors) 51.4 early outdoors
I want to run something by Kitkat and the rest of you out there regarding the GPP preperation.Current week looks like this:
Sun Hill sprints/Weights
Mon Drills/Tempo/Circuits
Tue Rest
Wed Hill Sprints/Weights
Thur Drills/Tempo/Circuit
Fri Hill Sprints/Weights
Currently doing all of Charlies Hill sessions at the minute,but was thinking of changing one of the hill sessions to a Special Enurance session consisting of two hill runs x 30-40 secs.
Based on my belief that I really need everything shifted to the left of the speed continuum If anything I’m thinking of favouring the short side of the event for the upcoming indoors.
Could I do the Special endurance runs on the hills ? My main goal for the indoors is to break 23 seconds for 200m so I’ll have some room to manouvre for the outdoors. Any thoughts ?
Its been a dark couple of seasons and I’m hoping that this forum and the new training could be the turnaround.Any input greatly appreaciated.
DearDuck
When I put this bunch of ideas together into what I hoped might be a cohesive performance strategy (one that might even deliver what it was planned to), I had a few well-credentialled coaches tear me down saying the athletes on this program wouldn’t last the distance, wouldn’t last the rounds because there was no over-distance running.
But there Is Over-TIME in the program and a lot of work Specific to Racing Rhythm.
You may have noticed I write a lot about Training In The Rhythm Of The Race. This has a dual intent: I use the term to describe both the Time of the run and With Relaxation On The Run.
Training is meant to rehearse all the skills needed to race effectively.
One of the biggest elements in performance is running with what experienced athletes and coaches call Relaxation.
It’s probably strictly-speaking not relaxation as much as it is a conscious “release” or a “letting go” of tension starting with the fingers, arms, shoulders, neck and face. And as we all know, that will help breathing (thus energy efficiency = endurance) and it was help improve mobility through the hips (thus greater and more efficient force application).
The talk died suddenly when I had my top male race a 600m at a university meet against the then national 400 recordholder and the then national 800m titleholder.
My guy sat on the recordholder, who dined out on 500s, 600s, 1ks, weight circuits, hill circuits etc, and in the home straight kicked his guts in to win by a couple of metres.
The 800m champ was way back, severely disillusioned after he’d done all his massive aerobic and so-called strength base. But it wasn’t specific to anything he was likely to need in a decent 800m race. He ended up quitting track. That was his last race and he entered a monastery within six months. No kidding.
This was in May '88, so just emerging from the second 6wk cycle of GPP.
What I’m saying is if you want to race 500 indoors, you still need speed otherwise you have no speed-reserve. And of course you need that aerobic power as well as the ability to tolerate a sustained run with some level of lactic loading.
The concurrent model (no longer a “theory” to my mind) gives you the basis to race a great 500m, so long as you commit to the GPP as it is described in this thread (somewhere! 
).
We did the training mostly like it was a race. We put everything into each session, whether it was surviving on time-schedule of 9x300, or 3x2xLong Hills (360m at about 12-degrees), or be it turnaround declining ladders (300+150, 150+150, 120+80, 80+60, 60+60 or something akin to that).
There was intensity to the training. But there was always relaxation on the run, everything was multi-purpose and certainly one element critical to the success was RELAXATION on the run.
I heard an interview the other night with a former member of Chicago Bulls team during Michael Jordan’s golden era. He said the training was more intense, more sensational than the games. That’s why they won so many games, he reasoned.
The GPP is on page 22, to save others some time searching
KK, I was under the impression that the long hills were “only” 2 sets of 2. Did you sometimes throw in a 3rd set?
I know the 9x300 was done on a grass track. How short was this grass? I’m wondering if it’s an Aussie thing or just semantics. I usually mark out a 400m track on a big grass field, although it’s certainly not a dedicated track, just a soccer field. In any event it doesn’t matter, I suppose. I’ll start having my guys spike up and throw some intensity into their 300’s on the grass. This will ensure good foot contacts, of which I know you’re a fan. In workouts like this, I find that my guys have a tough time jogging the recoveries. This seems to be the toughest part for them, not necessarily maintaining the rhythm of the run itself.
On page 22 where you outlined the GPP, you wrote of a 4x150 workout. Is this the one with diagonal jogs across the infield, varying between tempo and fast 150s? (This is how you described them in your transition block)
I have, as you picked up on, probably not done enough special endurance sets on the track (none as of now, 4 weeks into GPP). I have told myself that the long hills as you prescribe them will suffice for now, and rather than getting on the track for quality reps, we will be OK by doing more extensive tempo volume (i.e the 200+300, 200+400, 200+500, 200+400, 200+300 workout that Charlie has described, or 10x300 on grass with 100 walk recovery). My rationale has been that in a short period of time we will be unable to get on grass for tempo, because it will be covered with snow, so we will strike while the iron is hot and take advantage of our soon departing warm weather.
My quarter milers and 400H, then, have done a good deal of short hills (i.e. 3x3x30m) and not yet workouts like the sprints ladders with walk-back recoveries. I am beginning to think that the short hills, while great for my 100m men, are not relevant for the long sprinters. I have probably assigned them out of convenience, as it’s easiest logistically to have both groups doing the same work on a given day. And, in this selfish vein, I am now contemplating replacing the short hills with medium length hills, e.g. 3 x 3 x 90m, to be more specific to the needs of the 400m and 400mH while still not completely scrapping my existing template :o
To be completely honest, I have learned a ton from this thread, but have probably only truly adopted your methods where it was convenient for me. E.g., I have put in the long hills and 5x200 type workouts, as well as the forthcoming fast 300s on grass in GPP, when I thought strength work was needed, but still have not made myself implement the special endurance sets in the GPP. I am having a tough time breaking out of the school of thought that says “special endurance should not be used until the latter stages of preparation.” I don’t say this to make it sound as though I don’t think they have value, as I know biting the bullet and getting after it is a hallmark of your program, just that I am having a tough time convincing myself to go ahead and do it. Old habits die hard!
John Wooden, legendary coach of the UCLA basketball team, echoes the Jordan teammate in writing that his practices were more intense than games, too. He was all about preparation - when the game came, he felt as though he could almost take a seat in the stands and just watch, because he had fully prepared his team. Similar to what Charlie and yourself have written on this forum about training and competition.
DearDuck,
We Always did three sets of the Long hills. It was a long session. Up to 45mins between sets sometimes. I set all the other parametres, so left recovery b/sets up to the athletes.
Grass was short. Dirt would be fine too. If track was sodden, we’d occasionally do the 3x3x300 on synthetic surface. Walk the recoveries if needs be, but complete the session. Take 10mins between sets if needs be. Record all your 300 times per each athlete and from there you can establish for each individual a general target time for the 300 next time the session comes around. For novices, just doing the numbers will suffice without worrying about the clock.
4 x 150 is the same, with diagonal recoveries. But in GPP we did 3 sets of 4x150 for total 12 reps. In SPP we cut it to 2 sets and upped the quality.
All these multi sets sessions initially are about just finishing the session, not about the clock especially for first-timers to the work or athletes with very few training years behind them.
I don’t see the relevance to 400m endurance preparation of doing short hills. Anything under 300m is short.
Later in the season, when “topping up” the base from time to time, I’ll always use a few hill sets such as 2 or 3 sets x 1 x 360m hill + 4 x 80m hills. (jog down recoveries)
I’m sure others could justify anything in context of their program, but for me the long hills serve a variety of purposes among them being to develop lactic power. As mentioned, I need the hills to fulfill an Over-Time element in my program, so I take them out to 360 metres which is about right for male and female 400m specialists. The hills are grass. Dirt would be ok. I’d be hesitant to do it on bitumen roads. Too harsh on the legs and back.
In other words do everything in training to ensure you never get into a comforrt zone 
i spent a yr at the AIS doing 800m training. in that time, we spent a lot of time doing aerobic efforts. a tonn of overspeed work.
i spent 12mnths before going their working out going rarely over 400m in training and doing efforts either at a relaxed Set pace or quick hard efforts.
results. my training produced 4 sec quicker 800m. and 2min faster 8klm.
Sorry I’m a bit confused. Are you saying the AIS is fully responsible for your improvement?
Are you saying the under-distance of the previous year was bad for you?
What times did you end up running at 800m?
When at AIS what did you do as “over speed” training?
And, finally, were you making a point relevant to anything specific in this thread that you disagree about?
kk
My new season starts tomorrow! We are very excited - this is a new start with new goals and at least … we’ve got something to build on!
(My athlete is SO excited … even planned his running gear for the following week!!!)
During the past season, I have read this thread over and over - I thought I know EVERYTHING that was said, understand ALL discussions. But while I was preparing the new programme, etc, I even discovered new, exciting things previously said. This will definitely be my guideline once more.
I will keep you updated for the next 36 weeks … before Osaka! And will request assistance from time to time as well.
On this note -
I have previously asked, but cannot remember the answer - and I see that there was a discussion on this subject again: Does a 400m-athlete need a lot of aerobic work - like jog EVERY morning? Do you need to know his/her VO2 Max? Is it of such a great importance??
Furthermore - do you think it is necessary to test a 400m athlete on a vertical jump? Why or why not? Do you get ANY indication of his/her ability to run a 400m??
Now it will be an early night - ready to go tomorrow … with 150’s!!
Hi sprint_coach,
I am not at all anti-science in my approach to coaching, but have found that many coaches will try to baffle you with bullshit to protect their leadership position.
You can jog every day, lift weights every day, sprint every day. . . but eventually too much of a good thing…
Look, the work my group followed - which included jogging three or four days a week in the early years and in the GPP and beyond for some athletes - always delivered an athlete who was prettymuch bullet-proof.
If they lacked anything it was certainly not in the last 100m of the race.
The tests conducted on the athletes I worked with were relevant pretty much only to the athletes I worked with. Their results could be compared against their own outcomes season by season.
I’d question the relevance when compared to any performance parametres for a so-called pool of elite 400m sprinters because outside the Dirty DDR or Risque Russia or some of its client states I doubt such a statistically reliable sample exists. And the variance of the circumstances of your athlete(s) as against athletes from the DDR would be such as to render their performance parametres irrelevent to anything you would care to achieve by means other than those which they used.
In the end, vertical jump tests may be of most use as a diagnostic. If you’re flat from too much training, you’ll lose your “ping”.
But for goodness sakes, as a quality coach you’ll see that in your athletes’ eyes before they even do the tests. And if not, their state of readiness or overload will be instantly evident on your stopwatch, or by watching their form collapse during the run.
Aerobic thread is important, but you develop that with whatever you do - including all the activity at the track and in the gym - over time.
Even so I used to have the elite athletes jog for up to 45mins, but found that lower-limb overuse (soreness, stiffness) started to inhibit sprint training performance.
Over time I dropped the load back to around 20mins - on a surface like grass or dirt (avoid bitumen and NEVER run on concrete) say 3 days a week, often on a back-up day (not on a speed-development day involving MaxV and Weights).
Sometimes administrators design tests just so they can administer and record (and, by extention, control you) - but you are not responsible for the creation of their paper, you are responsible for your athlete.
Keep doing what you’ve been doing!!