Bounding and cleans are likely to improve acceleration more than top speed and snatches are likely to improve top speed more than bounding and cleans.
Bounding seems to help top speed as well due to the nature of the movement. I don’t understand the snatches = top speed though…
Snatches really probably don’t improve top speed… only sprinting does.
You could argue that statement on paper but I don’t think it’s true in reality.
None of those exercises approach the ground contact times for top speed sprinting, so I would say that they are all more focused on the early acceleration phase where the ground contact times are longer.
If you want to improve top speed running… you got to run at top speed… though vertical plyos do help out top end speed.
I have argued pretty much forever that strength is a general characteristic, and. as such, you would have to accept that strength gained from it will affect all aspects of the race, including top speed.
That said, not more than strength gained elsewhere.
Snatches hit the post chain really well and since top speed and overall speed ability is post chain dom the snatch could assist.
I think this gets you back to Charlie’s position about general versus specific. If you were going to depend on any weights for a specific stimulus, you could argue against doing weights at all from GCT. The specific gains from weights seem limited to the first 5-10m (remember those posts about elite shotputters beating elite sprinters to 10 meters).
One peer-reviewed paper I’ve seen compared different strength approaches for 100m performance, and found that CMJ was best for acceleration in the 0-30m range, bounding (for height) was best for 30-60m (i.e., MaxV for non-elites), but squats were the best approach for sprint performance overall (the general vs specific thing).
Can you post the paper LKH?
LKH, you have indicated you know a good amount about HSI’s approach–how do you feel about John Smith going from slower lifts to progressively faster lifts (ie cleans to snatches) as the season progresses?
lol first weight lifters beating sprinters, now shot putters :eek:
But I just think that if you really get into ground contact time… what about jogging? tempo? all those have higher GCT than sprinting and are still needed for different purposes.
Ive never been concerned about weight training offering a similar contraction time to the ground contact of sprinting, i have also believed in that general strength gained from weights will cross over to power as on the track.
The point with snatches against bounding and maybe cleans would be that they seem to hit the post chain better for top speed.
I think the discussion might take better shape if the initial question were to be rephrased; as what’s true for one individual and his/her circumstances may very well be false for another.
Just as what may serve to transfer more positively for one may serve to transfer more neutrally or negatively for another.
In this regard, the words general and specific begin to become context dependent.
The context must then be directed towards the biodynamic/bioenergetic stucture of bounding, cleans, and snatches.
Though these means must be further specified as to what type of bounds (double leg, single leg repeated, alternate leg, how many contacts, for height or for distance, focus on minimizing ground contact/coupling time), cleans (where is the pull started from, what is the catch position, how much weight), and snatches (where is the pull started from, what is the catch position, how much weight)
From there, consider the criteria of Dynamic Correspondence as it relates to each means as well as the different phases of the sprint:
- accentuated regions of force production (where in the amplitude/range of motion are the greatest forces produced/incurred)
- amplitude and direction of movement (range of motion and direction in which resistance must be overcome)
- dynamics of effort (the nature of the motion specific to the exercise with and without consideration of the forces involved)
- rate and time of maximum force production (how fast and for how long is the maximum force generated)
- regime of muscular work (type of muscular activity ergo overcoming, yielding, sustaining, ballistic, etcetera)
The comparison of the bioenergetic structure of the means and the phases of the sprint must then be weighed against the peculiarities of the sprinter and the outcome will then determine the degree of transfer and to what extent it is positive, neutral, or negative relative to the different phases of the race.
Just a general statement James, don’t want to get too bogged down with the specifics when there is more important things to do like sprinting itself. I prefer the general if simple approach for resistance work and the specifics on the track.
No argument there Rich.
My post was meant to elucidate to you and others the considerations one, in my view, absolutely must make when discussing the relation of strength/power exercises to the different phases of a sprint.
I agree; however, your initial question implies otherwise; because if your view of the resistance work is more simplistic, in that it serves a general purpose, I suspect you wouldn’t be concerned with how the exercises you mentioned relate to acceleration or top speed.
James, I suppose that I am really trying to tailor this for myself and choose the exercises that offer the most ‘bang for buck’ since I haven’t time to try everything and I want to keep certain niggles away.
Ideally we would know what resistance/ballistic exercises work best for sprinting under all conditions taking individual response into account also; we could then apply these exercises efficiently and effectively. This would take alot of trial and error.
I understand completely.
My suggestion to you, which is also consistent with your interests on the matter, is to incorporate the lowest ‘cost’ means into the training first and see what you get out of them.
This would include relatively low stress jump/bound variations that don’t require much preliminary preparation in contrast to, for instance, various single/alternate leg bounds for farther distances that present much greater structural stress.
If you’re not already doing them I suggest:
Double leg Horizontal single, and multiple response efforts up to 10m or so) as well as standing alternate leg triple jump (initiated via a double leg take off) for start and acceleration
Vertical multiple response jumps (ergo hurdle hops), you could experiment with efforts here up to the 10sec range, for max V.
Again, these are lower cost selections.
Just an observation: I have seen as many aborted bounds and hops as I have olympic lifts. I know Vince Anderson has also noted this in the past and a lot of coaches actually spend a fair bit of their time in the prep period coaching much lower amplitude movements (to the point they are low intensity) before including them at a high intensity level within a training program. There are a number of elite jumps coaches who would fall into this group (on top of the sprint coaches). Just food for thought.
I wish I knew how to bound. 