guys i’m sorry if my theory dosen’t match up but i’m strictly speaking in terms of a 100m sprinter!
Shabach you are correct in what CF says
I completely agree with x-man wrt the fact that 6’s-8’s are useless for a 100m sprinter. This is purely because a 100m sprinter doesn’t need this sort of cv fitness. Whereas a 2/400m runner does. (Well it’s not essential but it helps). I mean last winter the furthest distance i ran was 350, and i ended up running 11.2/3 consistently last summer. I also ran a 22.52 fat 200, and was consistently running 22.6 hand time. I feel had i been running any further than 350 in tranining, my race times would seriously have suffered.
Mr. Magoo
A training partner of mine was rinning further than that in the winter distances of up to 800m. this was obviously during the strength and conditioning phase and done at tempo pace. he got his strength up big time and now that he is transitioning from the strength phase to speed he is just running incredible times. he ran a 10.86, and is consistently in the 11.1 range and better. his 200m is also as good. he is 45 years old and running more than 350 didnt hurt him, in fact I believe it is the strength of his running.
Fair point shab, I guess it’s a case of what works for one doesn’t necessarily work for another…
we should remember that everyone has different bodies and physical make-up. so I agree one thing may not work for everyone. however I dont think that we should throw out anything simply because we dont see it working for us. unless it is just insane like a 100m sprinter running fartlick miles 3x a week 
Oh definitely shab, as a matter of fact i ws doing fartleks on grass twice a week in october/november time to improve general fitness. I’m discrediting anyone who does 6-800’s as a sprinter, I myself have found that i’m not best suited to it…
Shabach you are totally correct in what you said about make-up of an athlete.i’m talking from my own personal expierience with various coaches who coach 100m.guys on my team could do 6’s/8’s and if they wanted could be world class at such distances if they liked.as for me i just couldn’t tolerate anything over 250-300m.they absolutley killed me!
i remember charlie saying that he had ben doing a 200m session and ben felt that they were taking to much out of him.charlie cut the distance to 150m and before you know it ben broke his 200m pr.
just don’t for get that a high level of speed must be there whatever the sessions are,unless tempo of course
X-Man
Ben didn’t drop the tempo runs- even beyond 300m, he shortened the special endurance runs (but not before he’d already run under 32 sec.) I don’t see why you can’t do the 600 repeats in tempo as long as the pace is controlled and you can finish the way you started. It’s far better than doing continuous running.
Originally posted by X-Man
[b]guys i’m sorry if my theory dosen’t match up but i’m strictly speaking in terms of a 100m sprinter![/b]
Well no, you referred to training for the 200m as well in post 8 of this thread.
Dazed are we talking about 8/6’s or 300/400s during GPP for a 100m sprinter.i am basing my opinion on a 100/200 sprinter.300/350s are a great distance for a 1/200m sprinter but 6/800s are rediculous.
Who ever suggested 800’s? It sounds like you are trying to strengthen your arguement by introducing facts which are irrelevant to the subject at hand. It’s also worth while noting that Tommy Smith, John Carlos, Peter Norman and Pietro Mennea all run to the upper of these distances.
just don’t for get that a high level of speed must be there whatever the sessions are,unless tempo of course
How else would 10x600m be approached if not from a tempo standpoint? I don’t know any one in the world (who runs less than the marathon) who could approach it from any other perspective.
You also haven’t addressed the issue of improved recovery, posture, or my point regarding adaptation times for speed.
Judging by your Third post and final post in the thread you have difficulty reading an entire post and actually understanding what it means. Do your athletes a service and try understanding what your views entail rather than just writing throw away post all the time.
i really believe this argument can be infinite because we are talking high school workouts, college, and professional… all athletes who are doing workouts for different reasons and goals.
after running 50.5 and 22.0 my junior year of high school track, i ran cross country, then my senior year i ran 48.56 and 21.32, was it cross country? who knows. when i got to college, i ran the 200 and 100, dropped the 400 except for an occasional relay. I never really ran anything over 250 in practice, but at the end of the season after never being on the 4x4 but once, i had to step in for the WAC championship for an injured guy and ran 45.9(according to my coach) on the anchor. Later i timed the race about 3 times and timed it at 46.3, but you know how coaches like to make you feel a little better about the clock…
You ask, what is this guy’s point, different workouts work for different athletes, in high school, coaches have sprinters run cross country and don’t have the coaches to allow sprinters to do different workouts from the cc team everyday, not to mention in order for the coach to be seen with those sprinters, they better be signed up for cc or that is a violation, but sometimes that cc works for them. It is better to fiddle around with variations and see what works, but i do believe 600s can be beneficial for 100/200m sprinters.
we’re getting really uptight about this whole arguement.put it this way-there are more than 10ways to skin a cat.everyone has there own approach about GPP,i have mine and have results.
by the way the guys i was with weren’t using these runs for a tempo perspective
Originally posted by X-Man
[b]we’re getting really uptight about this whole arguement.put it this way-there are more than 10ways to skin a cat.everyone has there own approach about GPP,i have mine and have results.by the way the guys i was with weren’t using these runs for a tempo perspective [/b]
Who’s up tight? I’m as cool as a cucumber, but just happen to think that you have no idea what you’re talking about, which is indicative in the way you keep contradicting your self.
The guy you were with wasn’t using them for tempo? Who cares, if you actually read other peoples posts you will find that that is by and large what the topic is about.
And before you start ripping off Charlies proverbs, have a clue as to what they mean. I don’t consider any one who enters a topic with:
your wasting your time with these distances.no point,whats the objective.
to be in any sort of position to later use “There’s more than 10 ways to skin a cat” as a defense.
i;d say if hsi were to do 10x1000m you would most likely do them.do you know the purpose of hsi doing 10x600 and whats the distance/reps going to be like in the during the O/season.
in reference to my statement about skinning a cat what i mean is there are other approaches in doing GPP.you may hear or read about hsi doing x session and start replicating the sessions but is this suitable for you/do you know the entire programme and its objectives?
i know that x athlete does 10x200m for GPP,he has his reasons and knows what the future objective in doing this session will be.
OK, so for folks who believe in 600s, what would the % best time be per run, and what would the rest period be?
To add a slant to this, to those who have felt the cardiorespiratory stress of 10x300, are 600s necessary?
richard my highschool coach who won some stupid award called the national coach of the year and had the national winstreak for any sport here in the US used to prescribe long rest intervals for 600m. Even with tempo. I dont really remember doing much in hs but lying around on the mats and checking out the girls. Thoughts?
Timothy, I suppose thats aloud…got to keep the balance in high school…can catch up later 
goodtimes rich, yep we got to practice in a field house full of fine looking star gazers!
Cheers,Tim
Originally posted by Charlie Francis
X-Man
Ben didn’t drop the tempo runs- even beyond 300m
How far did he go? What is the farthest, including GPP, that you would recommend for an athlete specializing in 100 (I realize he was training for 200 at some points)?
Originally posted by X-Man
[b]i;d say if hsi were to do 10x1000m you would most likely do them.do you know the purpose of hsi doing 10x600 and whats the distance/reps going to be like in the during the O/season.in reference to my statement about skinning a cat what i mean is there are other approaches in doing GPP.you may hear or read about hsi doing x session and start replicating the sessions but is this suitable for you/do you know the entire programme and its objectives?
i know that x athlete does 10x200m for GPP,he has his reasons and knows what the future objective in doing this session will be. [/b]
PLEASE FINISH READING PPLS POSTS.
You’re professiong to lecture me for objectives, when the entire factual side of your argument is based around the rather ambiguous comment “what do 600’s and 100’s have in common”?
You attack me, suggesting that i’d copy what ever HSI do? No body suggested that they would perform this session on the basis that HSI do - they were given as an example, just like you used Ben as example (Although you did profess to understand what was going on then, and got it horribly wrong)
And alluding that I really don’t know what I’m talking about because I haven’t taken anything else into perspective?
Tell me, where in my posts have I suggested that this is a session that I perform?
Where have i stated that this is the ONLY session that should be performed?
Where have I said that because HSI do this, I do this?
NOWHERE - I’m not the one making sweeping statements regarding what should and what should be done. That is you.
Don’t attempt to put words in my mouth, because nothing but stupidity has dribbled out of yours.
But any way. As I stated before, the OBJECTIVE of performing multiple reps between 400m and 600m is to improve significantly the aerobic system of the athlete in preparation for the training period, strengthen connective tissue and improve sprint posture as well as side effects such as building the athletes confidence in regards to longer race and training distances than their specialty (So they don’t end up like the Shirvo’s and Dwains of this world who think 100m is a long way).
The effect that this will later have on training is improved recovery times (both in between and during training sessions) by improving the rate of protein transportation, the rate of protien sysnthesis due to increased muscle and blood oxygen levels, reduced muscle and nerve damage due to faster removal and recycling of waste product. Stronger tendons, ligaments and attachment points allow for speed to later be performed with reduced risk of injury and also improves elasticity. Would you like me to go on?
Xman you have not contributed a single piece of constructive or rebuttive information to this entire thread, don’t bother responding unless you intend to.
Originally posted by Richard Hand
[b]OK, so for folks who believe in 600s, what would the % best time be per run, and what would the rest period be?To add a slant to this, to those who have felt the cardiorespiratory stress of 10x300, are 600s necessary? [/b]
First of all, are you training for the 400m? If so then I think that the 6’s play an important role in tempo. As I’ve stated before they allow the athlete to gain confidence in overdistance, which in a largely physchological race such as the 400 is a massive advantage to have (allows the athlete to focus on what they intend on doing in race, rather than how the hell they are gonna run a full lap or how much it’s gonna hurt).
I wouldn’t see a session such as 5-6 600’s (a volume that I myself are more likely to perform) as a replacement for 10x300, but rather an alternative to add variety and to emphasize the impact on the CV system rather than lactate system.
Again it comes down to individuality, what you intend on achieving during the session and keeping variety in training.