How to train between meets

Not to sound like a cookie cutter. Purchase Charlie gpp/spp graphs and use about half the volume. I would also look at the various online journals etc… You really can’t go wrong with those graphs if you make small changes… It may take 2-3 seasons to get them right for your body type etc. BUT THEY WORK!!!

I have gpp and spp graphs. I’ve watched gpp and studied the spp graphs from Edmondton and Vancouver series, although I have yet to fully understand them.

Would I have to use half the volume? If I don’t get hurt doing it, can I do all the volume?

I used to be able to only handle 600 a day twice a week (due to bad shin splints), but recently, I’ve been able to handle 600 a day three times a week as my upper limit, depending on the intensity, thanks to chiropractic treatments.

Remember that it’s not a matter of how much you can handle while getting faster, but how little is necessary to get faster. Your post doesn’t mention your sprint times, only your tolerance for load. Be sure not to miss the forest for the trees.

Is it possible for lower level sprinters to be overtrained and stall/regress without getting injured? Please correct me if I’m wrong, I thought that lower level sprinters have lower force output, thus lower CNS demand, and can handle more CNS demanding activities as long as they’re healthy and conditioned enough to do so.

I did improve marginally with around 600m volume (April, May), and I actually started regressing for the past 3 weeks, and that was when I was mostly doing about 2-300 a day because of short amount of times between meets.

I can’t say I’m good at judging how I feel, but I actually feel great other than running horrible times. My diet and sleep have been probably best I’ve had in my life so far. I get very little soreness from training sessions if at all, and recover very quickly from them if there’s any. That’s why I thought I could handle 600m a day volume.

Thank you.

I haven’t been following the whole thread, but it’s certainly possible for lower level sprinters to be overtrained without injury. You can see it and hear it in the stride. It happens all the time to high school sprinters with inexperienced or poorly-informed or uninformed coaches.

Interestingly, a mate of mine who trained on Thursday said he jumped out of bed on Friday and felt great. He had cross country relay today 1400m leg (not sure how many) and felt crap, and ran crap.

I think the biggest issue with lower level athletes is over training, as I have found most if they get injured is muscular issues not tendon issues (no proof - just from what I have seen)

Depending on how long between competitions I would almost not do speed work (maybe a tempo or sub max session)

So then it’s possible to be overtrained without injury…I really wish I had a great coach that can tell whether I’m fresh or overtrained based on what they see and hear.

Thank you.

I guess I’m not the only one who can’t really tell whether I’m feeling good or not. BTW, does having muscular injury indicate that it’s caused by overtraining, while tendon injury does not?

Again, it is important for all to remember how much Charlie understood so many years before similar subject matter was published/spoken/written about by others who never credit him:

Nearly all training load elements are inherently high intensity for the low level athlete because the differential between what that low level athlete did before (little to nothing) and the seemingly low intensity training load elements they are presented with is actually significant.

Thus, even though “it’s just pushups” or “it’s just 200m repeats in 35sec” or “it’s just 100m tempo in 25sec” seems like insignificant low intensity actions, when the young athlete performing them is coming from nothing or simple youth sport games with no formal training the differential between what they’ve done before and those pushups, 200m reps, tempo… is actually substantial. However, because their outputs are low they don’t have the ability to trash themselves in the same way as a high output sprinter.

Thus, the illusion of “they can recover from anything because their young” is false. The truth of it is they don’t have the output ability to smash themselves even though nearly the lot of what they are doing is high intensity (not because any of it is absolutely high output, but because the whole of it is high in intensity relative to their little to non-existent training history).

I see. So this post is helping me look at things in a new, different perspective; that “low” intensity works can be relatively high for someone with low training base overall.

For me personally, I may be in a gray area in this regard. I am novice and very low performing when it comes to track and field. However, I’ve done a lot of other things before, that my general training base (not specific to track) may be higher than those lower level athletes you’re referring to. I wonder if that rule would still apply to me.

I’m not sure what would be qualify for being above that low level athlete. Though, I know I’m still way below most of world class track athletes even in general training base, my general training base seems decent in comparison with standards I’ve seen elsewhere (such as strength standards, military or police or school fitness standards, etc.)

These things were all done at different times…
I’ve reached upto about 2.09x body weight on squat (1rm, 2013), 1.38x bw on bench (3 rm, 2015), done 85 pushups in 2 minutes (2015), 96 situps in 2 minutes (2015), 31 inch vertical jump (2013), 9 feet broad jump (2013), 1.09x snatch, 1.3x clean and jerk. Though, these things may be insufficient or irrelevant… and one thing I know for sure is, my endurance is below average…I don’t mean average athletically active person, but AVERAGE JOE. My pushups and situps were done at those numbers because of my strength reserve, not because of endurance. When I do long distance running, I really am worse than average sedentary folks. It’s a mystery, since I’m very diligent with tempos. 1200-2000m a day 2-3 times a week.

Please correct me if I’m totally off point.
Thank you.

Not necessarily, a physio who has worked with UK and Australia teams mentioned must of the injuries he deals with ‘elite athletes’ are tendon based, where as lower level are muscular. Stiffness probably is the issue.

To go back to the over training issue. I don’t think I have ever had an athlete get an injury and not be over trained (I was to stupid to pick it up)

Yes, you definitely can be overtrained but not injured. If you’re a novice athlete and training systematically yet you are not improving you are most probably overtraining.

Are those elite athletes all track athletes? because as far as I know one of the most common injuries in sprinters even at elite level is still hamstring pull.

I agree that most injuries in track are related to overtraining if poor technique is ruled out (overtraining and fatigue can also cause poor technique too)

I hope I’m training systematically, I am not sure I am though.

Thank you.

Agree with James about relative intensity being important for new athletes. DMA is 100% with his comments about the prevelence of muscular rather than tendon injuries that matches my experience.
As for your own performance. If you are new to sprinting then your times are very likely to be ‘slow’. It is worth considering your own personal background in sports to see where your genetic inclinations lie.
For example the best masters sprinter I know came to the sport in middle age but played winger in soccer in his youth. The fastest developing distance runner I ever knew had been a midfield soccer player. So even without a sprinting background in your youth you may be able to extrapolate your genetic strengths.
BTW tempo will not necessarily translate into a good endurance performance over 2 miles.

Maybe you should look into HRV maybe “bioforce”.

I think tendon injuries become more prevalent with age, because tendons tend to degenerate as you get older. This has certainly been my experience: No tendon issues until age 30, plenty of them afterwards. Athletes are more likely to seek help from a physio for chronic issues, which is probably why they see more tendon than muscular injuries. Most athletes know what to do and expect with a hamstring strain, so may not go to the physio for that.

I have recently discovered a simple way of testing for CNS fatique: When I’m unable to perform a proper muscle up I know I need rest from HI work.

He worked with T&F athletes, and the governing bodies. I am not sure of the correct terminology, but it relates to stiffness and force application.

Kwave, what are your sprint times going back to your first year of competing in T&F?

It’s difficult for me to tell…When I was playing other sports, I was on the faster end of the pack, though not the fastest. Looking back, I think it was just because there weren’t many fast people among my friends. I was always faster than average ever since middle school, but when I started getting into track, I realized that although I may be faster than average, I’m really nowhere as fast as I thought I was…and that there’s a HUGE gap between being fast among non-track population and track population. Average people only run like 15s 100m, and most non-track athletes run about 12-13s, with faster non track athletes like Ronaldo running 11s, and very few exceptionally fast non-track athletes like Roben and Walcott running 10s. Of course there are some football receivers and return specialists run 10s as well, but many of them like Trindon Holiday also were track athletes before.

I know tempos and 2 mile runs aren’t equal, but I’m still puzzled as to why my endurance is worse than sedentary people.