Hello, I have some 400m guys-I am a former pure sprinter, no experience with a longer sprint. I have a question about conception of GPP for 400m runners. Not clear if I can use same model like is written here or should add some special endurance (2x600m) instead of one day of hills. Any help? Problem is that SPP is only 5 weeks long, GPP is 7 weeks long.
Which model are you referring to? SPP looks short indeed.
GPP hills workout… over here is GPP 7 weeks long, SPP 12 weeks long. Can I use 2x600m in GPP? and during SPP move it down a little bit, like 400m and less?
why spp so short?
The school, what I have been working for, goes on condition camp at the begining of December (on ski!) and after that we have another 5 weeks till indoor season launches. I am not able to do enything with that. I am a new coach in that school and no chance to make any changes. 
right now. The kids are between 16 and 19. What do you think about it?
How important is your indoor season? You may have to compromise your indoor season for a more fruitfull outdoor season.
They (kids) want to run and beat their records every season, either is indoor or outdoor. Both they have their championships, both they have their records. I would like to prepare them as best as I can for the season. But you are right… I think the progress is more important than just one successful season…
However, my question is, should I put 2x600m into a GPP? Once per week?
Sounds to me like you have a recipe for injury going from skiing to 60m indoors!
what should I do? Any advice?
If you have time, try to read the Lactate Threshold discussion on the Forum. One hint - You have SPRINTERS (with some speed?), moving to 400m; they are still young … WHY do you want to include 600m’s in your programme?? Look at the programme examples of Kitkat - I am from the same ‘old’ school! - you can work on a maximum of 350m distance (occasionally a 500m as part of a test). The athletes WILL be prepared for a 400m.
My feeling is to develop and maintain the speed factor of the athletes … I do believe that training of 600m doesn’t have any purpose in your situation.
Hope I have convinced you!! Good luck with the coaching!
How long is this break? Consider all factors to which your athletes are accustomed to and work around them, progressively moving towards your plans; don’t go crazy with changes even if they are helpful in theory. I hope you understand what I mean. As for the post-camp period I would be extra careful until things are back to normal, even if there is time pressure. It’s a tricky period to have an injury for the rest of the season even. Good luck and be patient until you are able to do more things you way…
I will check it. However, Clyde Hart does with his athletes 2x 600m with rest 15min. during fall period. For 46s runner is run 60 for 400m and than maintain the rest of the distance. I thought do it with 65 s and the rest we will see. These athletes are in 51 sec. max for 400m.
You will have to choose between Clyde Hart and Charlie/Kitkat!
(My problem with Clyde’s programme - which you can find on MANY web sites on the internet - is the following: Do you REALLY think that he will provide EXACT examples of his training sessions to the world? I have been at a course which was presented by Clyde and Michael a few years ago … and their practical training and the above-mentioned programmes did not ‘match’!!)
The MAIN question to you - What is your goal with the session 2 x 600m? Endurance? At what intensity do you plan your athletes to run?
When I get answers on the above-mentioned questions - I will try to give some solutions!
I would go with Charlie and Kitkat1. I remember when olivia tauro ran and convincingly won her first state 400 at 14yrs, she was training for 100m.
I wanted the pace at 65 s for 400m and then we will see how they manage the rest of the 600m ( I figure out that first sesseion would be like 1:40? and in couple of week lower to 1:30) but pace will be in GPP same-65 for 400m Nothing faster. The rest would be 15min.
The rest of the session for the week will be in charlie style for GPP (only wednesday exeption)
Still not good idea? The reason is thet at begining of Decemberthe athletes must go on camp with cross-country skis ( and do couple of miles on them every day- call condition camp) The competition season starts second week of January. That’s the reason I want to put 600m on program. I figure out when they come back from the camp, we will have a light week-nothing fast-for recovery. tham another 4, 5 weeks…
And I would like to know- the Charlie’s GPP Essential plan is for 60m-400m runner, same? Same model?
On the cross-country skis have one or two athletes wear compression clothing. The whole concept of skins was thought up during a skiing holiday.
I tend to agree with sprint coach. In terms of track work, I don’t go over any further than 300m in a single rep for 400m athletes and have a similar philosophy for my 800m runners who don’t go over 600m in a single rep.
I’m not critical nor against those who do use 600’s for 400 athletes, I just prefer not to.
The Hart program works much better-IMO-with people who are already very fast in h.s. (Wariner-20.41w and 45.57) or have good speed and are very undertrained-(Johnson running 21.3 in h.s. on 2-3 days per week)-or at least this is what I was told by someone close to that camp.
There is not much speed development work that would take place in the Hart program that would be seen in CF’s 400 program SPP as seen on this site.
Yes, I understand. But the Charlie GPP model here is overal for sprinter 60-400? Or was build for 60-100m sprinters? I didn’t understand if that concept was for all sprinters and than during SPP the short and long sprinters split and started their SPP? However, SPP here was 12 weeks long, my SPP is max 4,5 weeks long…
The longest run in Charlie’s GPP program except tempo work was 60m… still enough?
There is an example of a 400m programme (Charlie) available - DEFINITELY with reps longer than 60m … I don’t know which programme you refer to.
I do agree that 4½ weeks for SPP is not enough BUT if you cannot change it, you will have to make the best of it. My recommendation would be to use the ‘Transition’-programme of Kitkat (4 weeks) in that time. It is available on the Lactate Threshold discussion. (Will help you with the page number - sometime over the weekend!!)