I am confused. me and my partner have been doing cleans during our gpp. We are now in the max strength of the spp. Should cleans be dropped in favor of max deads and squats. Or should we continue with the cleans straight through to the conversion/maintenance phase and drop the deads during that phase?
I’d say keep the cleans and keep the squats if already being included (squats that is).
Just by reading your post (i.e., no other details), I would be more inclined to drop the DL, yes and/or do what Pioneer says.
ok… what other details would you like? So far I have been doing cleans, squats and deads 2 times a week and cleans and squats once a week. I have been making some excellent strength gains in the cleans. My squats and deads suffer a little.
I would then perhaps phase out the Deadlift progressively (e.g., to x1/week after your current cycle) and eliminate it or be careful with it during top speed development and/or competition phases, especially if you are able to push it hard. Power Clean (maintain for now) gives you more options later on to control time available and intensity (e.g., high pulls, hang cleans, etc), if needed. Others?
I think it ultimately comes down to how much work you can handle. As you move into SPP the demands of the speed work will cut into your lifting ability. Listen to your body. You don’t necessarily have to drop cleans or deads, but you might reduce their volume and/or frequency, maybe doing them in different workouts.
The weight lifting is just a general supplemental stimulus anyway. Concentrate on managing overall fatigue and recovery and adjust accordingly. Don’t be married to particular lifts if they’re sapping you.
Yea I was thinking that. The cleans usually sap my energy. I think I will start doing my deads and squats on different days. When I do all 3 I am really beat down.
Why are you trying to do all those deadlifts in SPP?
Im only doing deads once a week. I am gonna phase them out real soon. My partner wants to drop cleans during the next max strength phase and concentrate on deads more (deads and squats 3x a week and no cleans at all). Me and him were have a disagreement about it so I made this thread.
If anything I would drop cleans and deadlifts, after my speed workouts I have little energy for cleans.
After my third speed day of the week I usually cant do much in the weight room myself.
It seems like to me that you keep digging yourself into a hole, weather it’s the first or third speed day you shouldn’t be dropping off that much.
Well I also factor in waking up at 5am everymorning for work. The track workouts on the 3rd day are not bad, just tired from the week including work and workouts
I am a bit confused by this:
and this:
which probably means you still want the Cleans in. Anyway, how about keeping the Cleans in, indeed and using the first pull as a Deadlift if/as needed? I agree with RB34, your every day schedule is hard and you shouldn’t be afraid to keep at least the gym work to levels that really benefit you in terms of overall energy management and performance.
From the weights for speed download Charlie goes right into general v specific.If doing cleans then that is the only exercise you do as it recruits 85%of the motor units.If following general then it is suggested to do squats and bench.Deads were the 1st exercise to be dropped.So yes according to the weights download drop the cleans and drop the deads.
Doing all three lifts in one workout is pretty tough even if you were doing nothing but lifting. I can’t imagine doing them all after speed work on a regular basis.
This a perfect example of why training needs to be individualized. Why do you guys have to perform the same lifting program? Are your track workouts identical too? It’s one thing for your training to have a similar overall structure, but the specific content within that structure should be determined by your individual needs. If your workout content is based on consensus with your training partner that means neither of you is meeting your individual requirements.
Have you considered shifting some of the non-track work from the other days to the third day so that the work is spread more evenly over the week? That way the first two high intensity days won’t sap you as much.
Yea we do the same track workout but we have been on different weight programs. We go through the same phases (max strength) but we do different lifts, sets rep etc…He wants to almost follow charlies program to the tee but I have told him it is not possible because we are not pampered pro athletes with access to massage chiro and everything else on a daily basis.
The problem is Charlie doesn’t have a specific program to follow to the tee. He has specific principles, but the application of those principles is always adjusted to the circumstances. It sounds more like he’s trying to copy Ben’s program from '86-'88 to the tee without being in the same training circumstances as Ben.
You’re instincts are correct regarding access to recovery resources. You recognize that as the limiting factor, most don’t. Never add something to your training program unless you have also figured out how you are going to recover from it. This is much easier said than done.