Boldwarrier. The higher the level of the athlete (not 12 year olds), the more individual the program must be- FULL STOP.
So Charlie,
Are you saying that in theory, the method that boldwarrior suggested could conceivably work for the novice and/or high school sprinter?
For novices, training can be done more in a group setting- though there may not be any SE if they’re below 16.
The point i was tyring to portray! The example only had 2 runners going for the 400m. When we had 12yr olds in the same effort, it was like once a fortnight or so, just for fun, just an example. As each athletes strenghts develop, there programs will of coursce change to suit, otherwise my story will be even longer than they are. Training for the same race, only 2 people running, as i said, if they get good enough, pack up and move to a bigger sprint squad. Or get some more runners in the squad. Just think, if you got a squad of say 6, then somebody will be doing some aspect of your training and you can train with them that day. If you are all fantastic 400m runners, then they all could have completly different programs, but still have somebody to train with. I could imagine poor Usain Bolt and Ottis Harris, as in the example with 2 completly different programs, just the two of them, hardly getting to train together. Maybe being at the same track but doing different programs. Get more 400m runners then, otherwise Usain Bolt and Ottis Harris will have a lonly time training. I think that covers my point?
Oh, i also train by myself a lot, and i am held back by it a hell of a lot, i am now getting good enough, and since i have only found one other guy to train with, and he is a fair bit slower, I am packing up my bags in the next 6mnths and moving to a much larger town with a much larger sprint squad. Otherwise, darn, i might as well quit cause my progress will come to a stop soon due to bordem and a lack of competition. Training is hard enough as it is without being bored silly training by oneself.
I had a very large and strong training group, with many Olympians and 3 world record holders. You can read about the training of our group in Speed Trap, available in E-book format on the site. Just because you don’t do your SE at the same moment doesn’t mean that you can’t encourage each other and gain energy from others’ accomplishments.
A large group would be ideal, that is why i am moving to join a large group of sprinters. Its just we were talking about 2 runners, or even just a very small group. I even coaced myself for a short while, (most leave for university 700klm’s away) and we did what you are saying, running them indervidually, and as a mass start for people of same ability and the handicapt system. But then , we had like 10-15 runners there.
I do them myself indervidually most of the time, basically nobody around to run with or they are way too slow and lazy. What i am trying to place a picture of, is, either make up a large group of runners, feed of each other, and progress will be made. Or, do like im going to do, move somewhere where one can be in a large group of advanced runners, like your group. As you say, in a large group, you can all feed of each other.
To go even further if you like, as a small group of only 2 runners. an example. Myself and my old training partner, we both had no coach, just ourself’s. We both had completly different strenghts. But we both did the same workouts, at the same time, the only difference was how many reps we managed to do each. There was no way in earth we could have done the massive training we done by ourselfs just trying to encourage each other and watching each other. It was brutal stuff. If one of us was sick or worked late, then most of the time, the other suffered also. We tried to train like you are saying, but it was too slow because the pump and excitement you get from the other person as he lay on the ground gasping for breath, or beind lactic sick, well, just put you off your game. At least when we ran together, we were both lactic and out of breath at the same time, then when we recovered, we pumped each other up again and off we went. Did this work, well, we both ran faster times than training with one of the best track coaches in australia. This though was for the 800m.
Remember, i am not aiming this towards a large group like you had, but only for a very small group training for the same event. Such as the 2 400m runners in a previous example.
No big team. Just 2 guys going for the 400m.
Charlie,
I am now in training for the 200 and 400m. I just started training again not too long ago and I am all by myself. I wanted to wait until my fitness is up before I look for people to train with. Is that the right thing to do, or should I begin training with people as soon as possible?
Wow, boldwarrior, you have a lot to say.
Stagger starting your runners is an interesting way to tackle the situation. More than helping with speed or avoiding injury (because it really doesn’t stop those situations) it teaches mental toughness. The faster person is always behind, he/she has ground to make up and they have to fight for it. The slower person knows that he/she is being DEGRADED by being given a head start and hopefully they will learn to push as hard as they can even when they can’t see their competition coming up on them. As far as preventing injury? No i don’t understand it. You’ve got a slower person worried about the faster person coming up behind them therefore working harder concsiously or subconciously and a faster person fighting harder than normal to get back distance that they normally would not have lost. Then again it also depends on the personalities of the runners. If you have a fast and lazy person, then odds are the slower person with the head start will arrive at the finish line first more often.
I’ll finish this later, but I have to sleep.
The problem with staggers is the concept of fighting. You really want to concentrate on form and let the performance flow from correct execution- not to struggle to “get there”.
That said, there may be occasion where that’s useful- to teach the athlete to relax in a pressure situation- such as one might encounter in a relay.
Personally I always took the most benefit training with partners slightly slower than I was. Then I could run my PB relaxed, wo. pressure and in competition you exceed your PB, because the pressure “pushes” you “extra”.
When you start your track training and run the 100 in 12.20 while your Partner flies to 10.70 it’s simply frustrating, because you’ a world behind or you start 20m in front - but that’s psychology and other people might react different under or without pressure.
But even Boldwarrior has his fictional athletes train individual to their abilities.
But there are some oldfashioned trainers following the principle “bend or break” and as a result their athletes either break (get injured and stop) or bend and never reach their limits…
What do you mean when you say " bend or break" method?
The kind of High-School level trainers who set up a program for everybody and you have to fullfill it exactly to their ideas without chance of individual adjustment.
If somebody feels pain for example they tell you sg. like “What does not kill you makes you stronger” and their athletes end up either injured or below their limits, their possibilities.
I have to admit, I used to be one of those kinds of coaches. This is the way I (and alot of other coaches around the world) were taught when they were younger. I had to get around more advanced athletes and also become more of a student of the sport to realize the “bend or break” method as you put it, was the worst way you can train someone. You must, by all means, listen to the needs of the athlete. Otherwise you are preparing to fail.
We all have to learn as long as we live. 
But seriously: when you see how experienced coaches (like Charlie) train their athletes - one has to find out how much one has to know to be a good trainer.
Lucky is an athlete with a good rainer because only a few athletes are really successful without a trainer. (Gail Devers coaches herself, I think)
Gail Devers was coached for many years by Bobby Kersee, from the beginning of her college career in 1985 till very recently.
One question for boldwarrior. How is the coach supposed to observe the athlete run when all run together? Is there a point to even having a coach turn up if you train like this all the time?
There is a place for competitive runs, but its certainly not all the time. Maybe just before competition phase begins when you can “stress test”.
Running with a partner can be good in GPP when doing low intensity volume though as long as you are at a similar level.
The example was for only two runners. What, is the coach blind. Surly you dont need to see each and every step of each and every athlete. We used to run like that in a group of up to 6 max. Normally around 2-4 runners was what we did in a group setting. Depends on how many of like ability turned up to training.
Plus, i used this as an example, not of something we do each and every session, otherwise, that too would become boring.
I strongly believe that you do. The short sprints are very technical events and need a very close eye to observe the outcome of how all the components are integrating at the crucial phases of training.
If a coach gives out a critical analysis on six sprinters that have just whizzed passed him, he’s not blind- he’s full of crap! If technical analysis must be sacrificed to prevent boredom, you’re in trouble. Put another way- It’s better to be seen than ‘herd’!
I thought we were talking about people running the 400m. Doing a 300m. I try to always do my 60’s by myself. Like you said, its too fast to see much any way, and you can relax more.