I have had stiff necks over the last year or so, usually brought on by lifting that involved the traps (overhead presses, shrugs). The chiroprator worked well immediately. Some of the methods used surprised me. For instance, manual muscle tests were fine. However, when slight pressure was put on a rib or shoulder the muscle test would show taht I was weak. More strange was when I would have a vile of several different substances touch my skin. A manual muscle test would reveal only a weakness here. So, a test where I would hold a jar of an amino acid would show if I was deficient in that amino acid. This was totally new to me. What isthe general thought on chiroprators? I do feel that the ONLY thing that doctors can do is prescribe drugs or perform surgery. This is a very narrow view that someone who has a wider approach was refreshing.

[QUOTE=Nightfly] The chiroprator worked well immediately. Some of the methods used surprised me. For instance, manual muscle tests were fine. However, when slight pressure was put on a rib or shoulder the muscle test would show taht I was weak. More strange was when I would have a vile of several different substances touch my skin. A manual muscle test would reveal only a weakness here. So, a test where I would hold a jar of an amino acid would show if I was deficient in that amino acid. QUOTE]

Dear Nightfly,

  What this chiropractor was doing was not chiropractic, but a technique called applied kinesiology.


Applied kinesiology is somewhat out there. I know that some Chiropractors will chime in on this, but I still don’t see it. They will say that the emotional component has a strong relationship with the physical well being. I definitely agree with that. Is AK the approach. I have a Masters in Oriental Medicine and Chinese Herbology (acupuncturist) and even I go “what?” You could put brillo pads in a bottle, and say it was something else, and do those same off the wall tests. AK is also prevelant in the acupuncture community. Not as big as in Chiropractic. There are websites you could research the topic. Go to the type of chiro that may use muscle stim, EMS, nutrition, eliminating scar tissue, proper massage therapy, adjustments (gentle not ballastic) and veer away from the others. There is a thin line between health/compassionate/smart practitioner and the “All about the Benjamin’s crowd”

I resent the statement that physicians only can prescribe drugs or surgery. This is simply not true. Good physicians are well-versed in all valid means of the diagnosis and treatment of disease. Perhaps the best example of this is the medical specialty of physical medicine and rehabilitation, or physiatry. Have you any exposure to physicians of this specialty?

Hmm, I see a nurologist, nuerooncologist at Duke, endocrinologist, and an oncologist. I have never heard them say anything to me unless it referred to drugs or surgery. Yeah, I see doctors just a little bit. What he did was applied kinesiology. They can do some tricks that can suck people in I see.

Unfortunately most medical physicians are not qualified to make proper diagnosing or even to provide exercise therapies. Med schools only provide about 10hrs worth of exercise physiology and some med schools don’t even provide that! This also goes for Chiro’s and Physio’s. Right now, exercise science and kine grads are THEE professionals in exercise therapeutics. You can’t perscribe exercise as a form of therapy, if you have never taken an exercise physiology course, and yet you still have these moronic health professionals who claim they are qualified, rediculous…

What about the degrees that are therapeutic careers such as Physical Therapists and Athletic Trainers? Just because you have taken exercise Phys. doesn’t mean that you have been educated on the injury process and understand how to treat an injury. There are vast differences between training for fitness or athletics and training to rehabilitate an injury. Exersice science and kinesiology are not medical degrees, so your previous comment works well here too:
“…and yet you still have these moronic (Personal Trainers) who claim they are qualified, rediculous…”
Physicians and Chiropractors have been educated about injuries and how to treat them, so they may not be qualified in exercise prescription. On the other hand, Exercise Scientists and Kinesiologists are educated on the effects of exercise on the healthy body, so they may not be qualified to evaluate and treat injuries.

All of this being said, before statements about an individual’s qualifications, you must know their educational background. I know a few Chiros that have an undergrad degree in a therapeutic science such as Athletic Training. Part of an Orthopeadic’s education is learning therapeutic exercise, so these physicians are more than qualified to prescribe exercise.

[QUOTE=Firebird WRler]What about the degrees that are therapeutic careers such as Physical Therapists and Athletic Trainers?

I have not been impressed with ATC’s or PT’s at all. Talk about tunnel vision and not seeing the whole picture. They are afraid as doctors to venture anywhere unfamiliar. Heat, ice, EMS, nothing is new.

I agree that there are too many ATC’s and Pt’s that have “tunnel vision”, but this can be said for any profession. Personal Trainers are the worst at this in my opinion. Most certification orginizations require continuing education units to ensure that their certified individuals keep up with current research and techniques. The problem with this is that the organizations themselves often tend to suffer from tunnel vision. Acceptance of new information and techniques is what determines the individuals that excel at their profession.

Yep Yep. In any profession whether you’re trying to find a good lawyer, doctor, physician, PT, AT, coach, etc. you have to search through the coals to find the diamond. Try not to knock entire professions just because you’ve had a bad experience.

I absolutely I agree, I should have been more specific. As far as injury prevention and treament goes, especially athletic injuries, ATs are well versed in those types of therapeutics, including “sports” physios, chiros and MDs. The kind I meant, and should have been more specific about, is treatment in more things like obesity and in some instances injuries due to obesity, etc.

The kind of health professionals I mainly am trying to refer to are Chiro’s and Physio and MDs that have never taken an exercise phys course during their undergrad or professional academic careers and yet many of them feel that b/c of their title or perhaps b/c they took a weekend workshop/seminar course qualifies them to make such claims, that is what I find rediculous.

And it all comes down to one word, “competition” - they don’t want that, this is no secret.

Also, your analogy of personal trainers out there is bang-on, I agree 100%. There are many personal trainers out there who really don’t have a clue, and yet they get away with it for several reasons, two big ones are:

  1. its not a government regulated industry (there is currently work in getting this changed)
  2. Many personal trainers that are not very qualified mainly train relatively sedentary healthy individuals. As soon as someone with a post-MI or diabetes walks in the door, they do 1 of 2 things. 1) they still have the nerve to claim that they can train someone like that 2) they are a little more responsible and refer them to someone who can train them (hopefully).

In that case, I agree whole heartedly. Sorry about the confusion.

You hit it right on the nose. It’s a shame, but I’m afraid that these professions will never change.

I am beginning to believe this is the case. Last time I heard there was work in getting the fitness industry government regulated was in 1997-98…many moons ago.

I’ve heard the same rumors resurface within the last 6 months.

What you have to realise is that becoming qualified in something (doctor, chiro, osteo, PT etc) is the minimum standard a person needs to achieve. Since all these diciplines are vocational and skill dependant some practitioners will be much better than others.

If something doesn’t work you have to ask yourself is it because:

a) It doesn’t work full stop
b) You/they weren’t doing it right
c) The context did not match the therapy (wrong choice of therapy).

If you have a specific problem and take it to 3 practitioners in different disciplines they will all treat it differently. Same problem different perspective.

In my experience those medical practitioners who are versed in the greatest number of therapies tend to be best because they have more options and can choose the one that works the best for that situation.

Also understand that since all treatments to do with the human body rely on the test, therapy, test, therapy itteration, and it literally takes time for the body to respond, as a practitioner you don’t always know if what you are doing is working for maybe a few weeks. Therefore, experience is v.important to help you choose the right treatment straight away. Even the best practitioners can get it wrong - but being the best they should notice when this happens and correct themselves earlier than less experienced persons.

In this world you expect instant results and unless you are lucky and get a great practitioner more often than not this will not happen.

Hmm, so you didn’t read my post. The specialty of physical medicine and rehabilitation is what I was refering to here, as an example.

And why assume that all physicians have no background in exercise physiology? I’m a fourth year medical student at the Univ. of Virginia who has a bachelor’s degree in exercise phys with thesis, not to mention a good deal of extracurricular reading and experience in the subject which I plan to incorporate in some fashion into my practice in conjunction with other personnel.

As another example, a R2 resident in PM&R here has a Ph.D. in exercise phys and did research for a number of years prior to medical school. One of his aims is to demonstrate through research the various benefits of strength training for the elderly in prevention of disease and enhancing quality of life.

The PM&R chair here, Dr. D. Casey Kerrigan, probably knows as much about gait biomechanics as anyone you’ll ever come across.

So your broad statements about ‘all’ physicians being this way or that way are unfounded.

This is already pretty well established. Pollock did lots of research into this. There is a summary in “Resistance Training for Health and Disease” (Graves, Franklin, 2001).

In Europe there is a fitness chain called Kieser Training with well over 450,000 members targeting the 40+ age group who use Pollock’s recomendations and employ only strength training. On my recommendation my gran started there 2 years ago. Before she started she had to rest between every 2 steps when going up and down stairs. 4 months in she could do the entire staircase in her house up and down twice! Almost all of her friends now go. It is amazing what can be achieved with safe well supervised Rx.

It may be established in Europe, but as you probably know, North America is hopelessly behind the rest of the world in recognizing the benefits of strength training. This individual is striving to establish it better over here (U.S.).

Also, just because something exists (in the literature), doesn’t mean there’s no merit in attempting to develop it further.

The importance of the particular research in your mind isn’t my point. It was simply an example. My point is that not all physicians are clueless when it comes to exercise. Read the whole post.


Sorry, if you thought my tone was negative. I wasn’t criticising just pointing you to a few things. Obviously strength trainings can do great things for the elderly. I hope your friend makes a difference and gets good publicity.

Just make sure you stay away from the powercleans and depth jumps with the over 60s :wink: - yes i actually read an article saying how great the power clean was for improving leg power to prevent old fokes falling!

Power Cleans standing on a… ?