Given the fact that FOG fibers have a higher oxidative capacity and resist fatigue more then FG fibers. Should SE workouts involve short recovery’s to develop FOG fibers?
( In my opinon SE capacities can never be developed to the optimal levels with long recoverys between reps)
Intensity- to- duration, we believe is key. Distances or durations can be altered within an SE session to acheive required compensation levels and avoid long recovery session processes (e.g., extended light days) due to overload.
My question here would be - how much diminished intensity can be tolerated as not to lose the rhythm and consistency of movement during each rep?
1 min breaks are very short. It takes at least 90 sec to walk 100m recovery.
Originally posted by dcw23
[quote]Originally posted by gf_200
Dcw,are you implying that CFTS is only applicable to an athlete once they reach a certain (high) standard beyond a basic level of aerobic & general conditioning?
Depends on your definition of CFTS. I think it covers more than one or two phases of training! 
[/quote]
Dcw: Just threw it out there in the hope of sparking a bit of debate on this topic. I think it worked!. Delighted with the responses. Thanks 
Seems like insufficient rest for repeat 200s, even at tempo pace.
I am not advocating a system of training only for high level athletes. Special Endurance is useful only when you are ready for it and only at distances appropriate to the athletes age- ie a 13 year old shouldn’t run SE ar all and a prepared 16 year old shouldn’t do it beyond 150m. For those who are not ready for SE there is plenty to do in the gen prep area. Also, long breaks require their own special requirements, such as the capacity to maintain a warm-up for a prolonged period (very important in int. competition settings)
That seems to be pretty fast for tempo. It is 75% but with short breaks I usually cant go over 65% without struggling to get the needed distance. maybe you should start slower for the tempo runs.
Charlie, how do you know when an athlete has the required general fitness in place and is ready yo benefit from special endurance and speed endurance work?
Last year I coached a guy that could run 47s for 400m, 34s for 300m in practice but can’t run six 200 in 28-29sec with a 1 min rest.(pb 10.42,21.07) Would you say his general fitness was low and needed more work? How do you gauge it?
Probably not beyond 150m. It’s most likely that the training requirements would favour general fitness over speed or Spec End.
charlie: are you saying that SE shouldn’t be or doesn’t need to be used for high school(early to mid teens) athletes?should they stick to mainly tempo work? short speed?
I hope this has gone some way to solving the confusion around Charlie’s methods. You don’t just one day switch to the methods that Charlie uses for elite male sprinters and think that they apply to you. Charlie has plenty of methods for all levels of athletes.
A lot of the confusion comes from terminology and also people thinking that they are more advanced than they actually are.
Originally posted by Charlie Francis
Remember, the 400 is an event where it has been known for DECADES that having heats and finals on the same DAY will cause a colossal loss of performance. The last major International Games to have this practice was the Commonwealth games, where final times were often 1 full second slower than normal.
A good read is The Complete Book of the Olympics by David Wallechinsky… they go through every Olympic 400m… how many rounds, which day, which Olympics had the semi’s & finals on the SAME day, etc.
I think special endurance runs are to be performed with long recovery session due to the fact that they are a high intensity run. Tempo runs can be longer (than speed sessions) with shorter recovery to enhance fitness
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( In my opinon SE capacities can never be developed to the optimal levels with long recoverys between reps)
i think there are two types of speed/special endurance
the ability to sustain efforts w/in the run (i.e., the last 100m of a 200m)
the ability to run rounds at major meets
i think that in the first instance you need some work w/shorter recoveries
2-3 x 3 x 80m w/2-4 mins btw (8-30 mins btw sets)
1-2 x 2-4 x 150m w/1-5 mins btw
i think special endurance work with long (15 mins - 1 hour) definately is an impt factor in running rounds at major meets. it’s easily overdone however and with a “regular” training load does not need to be done very often – maybe once every 7-10 days in special cycles.
so for special endurance i’ll do:
1-4 x (120m-600m)
A while abo I asked what a special endurance workout would look like and this is what charlie posted
“One example might be 2 x 300m at max with a 40min recovery between runs.”
Hope this helps
i am not a fan of 40minute recovery since such a extended break will deminish the peak arousal for training. Other then deminished excitability of the sympathetic nervous system the negative effects of cooling down can occur.
I would be interested in other members view of long recovery during SE, from my experience with those who use long recovery cannot hold a peak for very long and they struggle to stay in shape for long.
I think best results from SE comes with short recovery (3-5minutes) at intensity at 80-90% since better technique & rhythm can be maintained. As lactic tolerance can be developed the onset of blood lactate can be shifted to later which will allow maximal speeds to be sustained longer. Even though the energy system for max speeds are alactic pathways- the development of SE requires a highly developed lactic system.
Originally posted by gf_200
Dcw,are you implying that CFTS is only applicable to an athlete once they reach a certain (high) standard beyond a basic level of aerobic & general conditioning?
Depends on your definition of CFTS. I think it covers more than one or two phases of training!
I think at Sharmer’s level of training (no disrespect intended at all) that the shorter recoveries would be of much higher benefit. It is very important to develop general and strength endurance and this is a good way to do it. These base qualities need to be developed before you can even think about speed endurance.
Dcw,
are you implying that CFTS is only applicable to an athlete once they reach a certain (high) standard beyond a basic level of aerobic & general conditioning?
Originally posted by Sharmer
i am not a fan of 40minute recovery since such a extended break will deminish the peak arousal for training. Other then deminished excitability of the sympathetic nervous system the negative effects of cooling down can occur.I would be interested in other members view of long recovery during SE, from my experience with those who use long recovery cannot hold a peak for very long and they struggle to stay in shape for long.
I think best results from SE comes with short recovery (3-5minutes) at intensity at 80-90% since better technique & rhythm can be maintained. As lactic tolerance can be developed the onset of blood lactate can be shifted to later which will allow maximal speeds to be sustained longer. Even though the energy system for max speeds are alactic pathways- the development of SE requires a highly developed lactic system.
Incredibly, this anomalous statement by Sharmer went unchallenged by the forum! Clemson, Flash, Charlie and other big-hitters - any comments?