Short recoveries can be used effectively within one special endurance rep- ie 200+100+100 with 60 to 90 sec recoveries BUT the rest interval between SE reps must be complete or the subsequent rep or reps will deteriorate into uselessness. Remember, the 400 is an event where it has been known for DECADES that having heats and finals on the same DAY will cause a colossal loss of performance. The last major International Games to have this practice was the Commonwealth games, where final times were often 1 full second slower than normal.
Originally posted by Charlie Francis
DCW
I wouldn’t use short recoveries for Spec End regardless of level. I’d use short recovery for the general prep work and keep the SE results as high as possible for each given athlete. If the fitness or prep level was too low, I wouldn’t include SE work at all.
That’s my point 
People try to do certain elements of training when they aren’t ready to do them and then declare that they don’t work.
I think many people, whether by design or not, use the term SE to encompass, Speed Endurance, Special Endurance, Strength Endurance and even General Fitness.
We need to crawl before we can walk otherwise there’s going to be problems later on.
TMSSF
Can you re-state your question? I’m lost.
DCW
I wouldn’t use short recoveries for Spec End regardless of level. I’d use short recovery for the general prep work and keep the SE results as high as possible for each given athlete. If the fitness or prep level was too low, I wouldn’t include SE work at all.
According to Charlie - "I wouldn’t use short recoveries for Spec End regardless of level. "
What about the 2 x 300 [ 40’ ] that you have suggested??
If I understand the question, you could use speed change tactics in special endurance runs… ie. 100 fast 50 easy 100 fast. Runs at 70 to 80% of max time are not special end.
Charlie: To re-state the original question - Have you found sessions which have variability in distance or duration (i.e., 200-500m/24-70s), as well as intensity variations, an alternative approach for SE training? As opposed to a set distance or duration and intensity.
In addition, are there other key points to observe other than rhythm of pace and consistency with arm/leg movements during each unique repetition (e.g. 250@80% v. 450@70%)?
Thanks.
Shorter rests would be used on higher volume tempo days >75% with ex. circuit runs (Quantity over quality).
Special Endurance runs (Quality over quantity) are to be performed at high intensity with full recovery
I think some of the confusion is coming from an unclear distinction between the two
well if your doin a one rep split… 300 rest 2 mins 300… your first three is supposed to be all out am i correct? so if i ran a 36.0 waited 2 mins and ran a 44 what energy system would i be working and what would this accomplish?
If it’s two reps, that’s 40 min break. If it’s referring to one rep of 300+300, (split 600), that would be 90 to 120 sec.
We can use all this medical terms,try to be smart,but it comes down to this:lower the intensity-smaller the pause,higer the intensity-more rest!This is a general rule,you start the winter with higer volume,low intensity runs and build up to less reps and higer intensity.Only other way i’ve heard of (and this can’t be confirmed) is training of Constantin Kenteris who 365 days,two times a day runs 4-6x 200m on 85-100% intensity.
richard,
agreed… it is essential and valueable to know the mechanism in order for you to accuratley plan. You must know what you are doing and why you are doing it.
Medical terms?
I’m simply stating some points to consider when planning special endurance.
Rest Intervals can be decided upon more accurately with an understanding of fatigue metabolites and muscle and CNS implications.
Originally posted by quick
We can use all this medical terms,try to be smart,but it comes down to this:lower the intensity-smaller the pause,higer the intensity-more rest!This is a general rule,you start the winter with higer volume,low intensity runs and build up to less reps and higer intensity.Only other way i’ve heard of (and this can’t be confirmed) is training of Constantin Kenteris who 365 days,two times a day runs 4-6x 200m on 85-100% intensity.
260 days. He trains 5 days a week. I think training like this would make it very difficult to work on the individuals weak points, such as startin, bend technique and endurance.
As a reply to the original question,if you are doing SE you are increasing toleration of lactic acid in your body and this requires long rests between reps so the lactic acid puffers in your body could do they work.This takes time and the rests should be from 8 min. to 15 min. depending on the intensity of the work.If you are preparing for the rounds in major competitions you should do 3x1,4x1 or 5x1 distances that you will run (example,if you run 100m you could do 4x1 100m max. intensity with rest between reps 12-15 min. or 4x1 110m rest is the same)!
I know for a fact that former east-german athletes used to do this prior to major competition (Tomas Schoenlebe 5x1 400m all reps between 45.00-45.50 and rest was 20-30min ,this he did before WC in Rome and he won).Ofcourse,to do this you have to be well prepared.
quick, longer rests between reps of sufficient distance may be sufficient for development of buffering systems (and systems for removal of other metablites) of the actual muscle, but if athletes want to more quickly develop optimum lactic clearance from the blood to prevent the side effects associated with the CNS (dizziness, sickness etc), shorter rests are probably of benefit. This type of training may be best at the beginning of SE before more controlled runs with quicker pace begin.
Longer rests allow for clearance of metabolites of fatigue inc. lactic from the muscle which therefore allows for a higher percentage of motor units to be recruited during each rep, which can then be effectively developed.
Also, I’m sure buffering systems will run at their developed optimum during contraction anyway?
Originally posted by quick
As a reply to the original question,if you are doing SE you are increasing toleration of lactic acid in your body and this requires long rests between reps so the lactic acid puffers in your body could do they work.This takes time and the rests should be from 8 min. to 15 min. depending on the intensity of the work.If you are preparing for the rounds in major competitions you should do 3x1,4x1 or 5x1 distances that you will run (example,if you run 100m you could do 4x1 100m max. intensity with rest between reps 12-15 min. or 4x1 110m rest is the same)!
I know for a fact that former east-german athletes used to do this prior to major competition (Tomas Schoenlebe 5x1 400m all reps between 45.00-45.50 and rest was 20-30min ,this he did before WC in Rome and he won).Ofcourse,to do this you have to be well prepared.
Quick, can you give your source (mag article?) for the work Schönelbe did?
Thank you