my point being that its a small difference between the two. the big difference is development of muscle.
in other words, your assuming the BF% based upon your preconcieved idea that one can get that low in BF.
how low do you think Mike here is?
look again at petria thomas and grant hacket…
nice to know that you can accurately see bodyfat %'s… most people think they can but cant do it well at all…
you missed the point…
These are the numbers quoted by lyle…
Average elite athlete bodyfat percentage:
Swimming: 8-10%
Cycling: 6-8%
Running: 4-5% (note: the occasional distance runner shows up and excels at higher BF%ages, at least for the women)
We are specifically speaking of SMALL differences…
clemson,
i’m completely agree with this. just because something is the norm doesn’t mean its optimal. in your experience, is it worth taking a swimmer down from maybe 8% to 6% or is a case of diminshing returns and maybe you can spend that time and energy more efficiently/effectively on another aspect to improve performance where the benefit would be greater? if its only small diet changes that are being made to make these differences, i don’t see how this could hurt performance, it should benefit the athlete.
Clemson,
The orignal post you brought up and criticized was a direct comparison BETWEEN athletes of DIFFERENT sports… What you are doing now is backing down and agreeing with lyle…
Its pretty lame to pick out one sentence in a page worth of text. Dispute that one sentence when infact you agree with the entire message potrayed (and infact the intent of the text)… Then claim that you owned him and that he fled the site because you embarrassed him so badly, Then argue hypotheticals when you continually ask whos trained who and for case studies… only to back down and agree…
just because something works for the best swimmer in the world does not mean its going to be optimal for the rest. i just don’t see how it can hurt??? small diet changes can make up that 1-2% diff.
i’m looking at some of the pics and some are leaner then others, besides thorpe, i really don’t know who the other guys are, sorry.
well if thats the case, then i f*ed up and should have read the thread more carefully.
you can’t get down to 4-5% bodyfat? my preconcieved notion is telling me bodybuilders for comp are getting even a little lower than that.
you havent awnsered the question
“how low do you think Mike here, is?”
my caliper is getting no skin from the screen…must be 0% 
3%?
Mike got measured at ~7% (Hydrostatic) before his Arnold Classic win a number of years ago
if he’s 7% then i’m fat bastard.
slightly OT but i remember someone mentioning Mike R from westside having a bf% (from a caliper test so accuracy is that great) around 15% which seems very low considering his beer gut, but not when you consider how his muscle is distributed over his frame.
Ive met some of those aussie swimmers mentioned and none of them struck me as being excessively lean, most were ‘smoother’ than me - and thats saying something
Don’t worry ccardill, from what Aaron has called me over at lyle’s forum, it is clear he is not a fan of me!
Kruger,
Lyle’s posts show that he doesn’t know everything.
" it does occur to me that, with the new body suits (which affect drag and perhaps buoyancy), this may allow swimmers to compete at a lower bodyfat than they used to."
Great theory! The new body suits are 10 years old and from the looks of Tom Jager 14 years ago, some swimmers were lean! But buoyancy lyle? (Tom was the fastest man in water 'till Popov broke his WR)
For those joining us late is this thread, lyle McDonald came in last spring to spread his cult of the 2.0 and starting ranting about his diet. I use macronutrient splitting ot keep athletes lean and he starting posting how swimmers are 10-12 percent on average, yet he seems to only post research from studies with kids ages 12-17 years of age.
i am worried because there are 1000 members on his forum possibly taking his advice and being misinformed. the frauds need to be exposed in this business. the problem is that there are young athletes out there that will stumble accross various sites and think that these people will be able to assist them and make them a better athlete when in many cases it is nothing further from the truth.
Please expand on this… What exactly has lyle said anywhere on this forum that is incorrect, except possibly placing too much emphasis on bouyancy in swimming???
Please feel free to visit his site and post ANY information here that you deem to be false…
Clemson you keep getting confused… Nowhere was it said swimmers must be fat, just that being fat is less bad for swimming than in other sports…
Now also you have posted about 3 swimmers who are lean, Inge Popov and Jager (who is admittedly before my time). Please take a look at the cross section of olympians/world championship competitors…
Also Lyle NEVER said 10-12 he said 8-10 which does seem fair…
Also if nutrient splitting is so excellent why is there no literature to support it?
If UD2 is so bad why has Christian Thib said that it is the BEST diet and training protocol for dieting that hes ever done???
Okay so from this the following questions arise
- why is 8-10 not an acceptable bf% for a male swimmer?
- Do you have any data on body comp of athletes in different sports?
- if yes what are the swimmers?
- If nutrient splitting is so great why is there no lit to support it?
- Please post info on why nutrient splitting is superior
- If UD2 is so bad why does CT think its so effective?
- if the lean swimmer wins as you have stated, how come grant hacket and thorpe win EVERY single time… are there no other swimmers under 12% bf?
8)Why havent your super lean swimmers beaten them yet? - if theory is so bad and case studies so good how come when someone brings up the fact that the top swimmers are not all that lean you start hypothesizing about how the sport is not at a high level yet and that what would champions are doing is not optimal and that they would all be faster if they were leaner and you were coachign them? is that not contradictory/hypocritical?
What youve said in this thread really makes a mockery of this
Case studies or history is vital…no theories, just reality.
- how come you havent actually rebuted/refuted/argued any of lyles points? You did make fun of his name pretty good though… Lie-Ill that cracked me up…
Either argue the theory OR argue the history/case studies… but please do atleast one preferably both… try to even assert some facts in your next posts please
Please answer all 10 questions
this thread is getting off topic.
Bulllllshittt. Like him or not (and agree with his approach of waiting for harder proof more than others or not) Lyle knows his shit: see Kruger’s response; I just had to back him up on this. And also on the fact that if you want to question ANYthing on his site I’m sure they’ll be happy to have you.