I agree with you, this is often a problem and the athlete can get sloppy very quickly if the re-set is not performed. I or the other athletes not on the platform will typically tell the person lifting when at least 10 seconds (though often more) have elapsed before they can commence with the next OL so power cleans/power snatches are pretty much always performed as clusters.
The athlete often does not understand the difference between performing a single lift in a set technically well and with good speed vs. doing a set very quickly in which the tech. execution is not ideal.
what is the limiting factor in a clean. I mean, it involves a deadlift, a hang clean and a front squat more or less, but does catching the weight at diferent depths change which part of the lift limits how heavy one should go?
Oh boy, you opened up a huge can of worms with this question. We could easily spend hours discussing this question, or you could simply open up your old R.A. Roman texts I don’t have a great deal of time tonight, but I’d like to share a few quick thoughts:
Limiting factors in the clean - there’s no definite answer. This depends upon many things, like:
the sportsman’s technique
many different strength factors
speed of the barbell
and so much more
as for your last question, can you please re-word it? If you are talking about the depth of the receiving position, the barbell’s height and the unwillingness of the lifter to get under the bar are factors here…
i meant does the limiting factor change whether one uses a high catch or a low catch? like there is much more of a posterior requirement to get the bar up way high, but the anterior requirement is much higher if one has to make a low catch and complete a front squat
I can do a lot of other safer options than power cleans done in this manner for stretch reflex. I am more interested in rate of force development on this exercise. I like the static overcome by dynamic effect. I find my athletes get better explosion in a short time frame as possible. I don’t allow them to do this crappy bouncing technique, that would be their brilliant high school strength coach.
Grip is the limiting factor. Haha. No kidding, it fails more than anything. Devils said it right. To be able to catch a heavy low catch clean, you have to be a kamikaze. As for the ten count between reps, brilliant idea. The thing that drives me nuts is when I see coaches programming high rep cleans with a bunch of kids who have no technical form to begin. i don’t evr have ANY of my athletes do more than 6 reps. I feel the small intrinsic postural muscle fail to early under load, it increases danger exponentially.
most often, my kids hands fail. They chalk up like mad, but some have little stubby fingers and can’t get much grip. Sometimes I will let them strap up to get a higher load. I find that when going for max loads( 90%), they think so much about the grip that it ruins their mind set. 80% of training is done without straps, but every now and then. As for failure in the movement, the first acceleration is where I see most lifts go bad. It puts the synchronicity out of whack.
From day one as freshmen, ladies or men, we teach the hook grip. They bitch and moan at first, but when they see the upperclassmen having success, they fall in line.
Grip strength has not been an issue for us, ever, because of this policy!
Someday, when my film student shows up (please!), I will set up our youtube channel to display our athletes doing the lifts. I am proud of their technique, so much so that I will willingly post it.
If an athlete can not master some basic technique skills, (proper back position, squat positions, etc.) they perform remedial exercises until the movement patterns are learned…They are not permitted to complete the lifts, because it is NOT my job to injure anyone in the weight room!
My only issue with hook grip is that I only get 3 hours per week with my athletes and for a very limited off season(3-4 months) max. I just can’t justify teaching when parents are shelling out $50/hour or more. I would love to, but parents just drag their kid elsewhere. I have quite a few kids hit 250+ in highschool and 300+ in college, so I like where are results are. I agree, if you can’t technically do parts of the lift, you ned to master each and everyone before you should attempt full on cleans.
Basically, the lifter wraps his thumb around the bar, and then the remaining fingers (depending upon hand size) over the thumb. It is uncomfortable at first, but once mastered, allows for a much stronger grip than usual. I even find myself hook griping shopping carts and lawn mowers, but that’s a different post
As for straps, they can actually pose a problem, particularly with the clean. For countless lifters, straps keep the bar from sitting far enough back in their hands when they receive the barbell. This prevents their elbows from raising up, and the result is a poorly positioned barbell.
However, many olympic lifters use straps for their snatch workouts, in order to “save” their hands for competition. It is much easier for the bar to remain in the proper position in the snatch (with straps) than the clean.
As for keeping the hook grip on the bar, some lifters “let go” of the hook grip as they receive the barbell, but others do not. This is a comfort issue. In all seriousness, once the hook grip is practiced, it does not hurt at all.
Devils is doing it the right way. Hook grip is what pretty much all olympic lifters use. I am just cramped for time. In a perfect world, I would hammer home hook grip. It can be exceedingly difficult for people with short fingers though.
THis is a big issue on a lot of people. Getting 3 hrs is actually a lot compared to me. Most i get out of some people is 2hrs, most 1 - 1.5hr wk.
I end up using Dumbbells as i find it easier to teach with such limited time. Mostly due to Imbalances from left to right and the effect that can have with Barbells.
My progressions start with
1 - Mediballs
2 - Body weights
3 - Dumbbells
4 - Dumbbells circuits
5 - Barbells
Some will be ready to move into Barbells eventually, but, no rush. Like Devils said, It’s not my Job to injure people.
I’m not suggesting the strap be used to lift with, more a safety thing (like wearing joggers when on grass in case of bindies).
I position the hand to where I want the bar to sit before wrapping, makes the bar thicker for a better grip. Probably not ideal for those like speedcoach with short fingers.
if i were to scratch the lifts involving a catch because of lack of wrist mobility (i’ll work on it…), is the jump still important even if im not catching or would i just hit triple ext, but not actually get airborn, if i did something like high pulls?
plenty of benefit. Problems with lack of wrist mobility or reduced rotation due to excessive hypertrophy can be overcome with some ingenuity. I can’t even finish a clean. My arm is around 20" and my forearms 15+. I use the log press which allows me to keep my wrists in neutral position which reduces compression between distal biceps and proximal forearm extensors. It limits my range severely. Hypertrophy for hypertrophy’s sake sucks. I like the jump, but that’s just me. We aren’t oly lifters so just keep in mind that as long as it benefits you as an athlete, than it is certainly worthwhile.
I don’t have a great deal of time tonight, but I’d like to share a few quick thoughts: