Question for Charlie or anyone else who knows the answer to this one. On the Long to Short Graph on the Vancouver 2004 DVD it shows that in weeks 10-12 the programme uses 3 Speed/Speed Endurance sessions per week Tues Thurs Sat. I am interested to know on which days would you include weights after the track work (as normal). I presume you would advocate 2 weights sessions rather than 3 so which days would you use. I would have put started this thread in the Vancouver section of the site but am aware that more users view the Advanced Sprint Training posts.
Would it be sensible to lift after the 2 speed endurance sessions rather than the maximum speed session (thursday) as there should be less CNS fatigue on the speed endurance days. ?
I would go on the 2 SE days yes! But maybe you don’t need three high days at all?
Thanks TC, 2 days or 3 that is my dillemma at the moment. None of my group are sub 11 male or sub 12 female so their CNS stress is not a high as say a 10.5 guy or 11.5 female. Some of them have had injury problems in the past so wondered if the 2 day high intensity option would be the best bet. However I could still keep the volume relatively low but spread it out over the 3 sessions. Any thoughts ?
I do 2 high with my athletes and we have girls running 11.5-12.5 and guys 10.5-11.5 and it works fine for both. My feeling is two really quality training sessions is what you are looking for. With a 2 day a week approach you also have the option of switching sessions if the weather is horrid. E.g. you may usually train 5 days a week mon-friday and do speed mon and wed. But if it is bad on wed you could just do it thurs or fri instead.
Good points TC, do you normally have one session where acceleration and maximum speed development dominate and the other concentrating on acceleration and speed endurance.? I’m referring to this stage of the training year. I am currently using Mondays as acceleration 20/30m followed by speed endurance e.g. 70 90 110m @ 95-98%. Then weights and if okay A’s over 30m. The next high intensity day is Thursday which is acceleration work followed by a couple of reps of longer speed endurance, e.g. 250m + 200m with a long recovery. Again this will be followed by weights and A’s over 30m.
I do 1 day pure speed (flying runs, standing 60s etc) and 1 day SE - both have acceleration before them. I’m indoors so no weather constraints but I guess for you it might be more important to focus on SE right now as it is probably quite cold and then do more of the pure speed work in the summer. Your program sounds similar to what I did 2 years ago with both a long to short and short to long emphasis.
Depends on the choice of the number of speed sessions. I’d do weights after all speed sessions so that I could spread out the same number of lifts over more sessions, lowering the load in any one session. You’re right, though, that higher lifts would be easier on the SE days.
If I felt it necessary to spread out the sessions to twice a week for weights, I’d have done the same for the speed work as it is the first priority.
Is it ok to do flying runs on speed endurance days so runs out to 120m or should the flying runs be kept on days with run aroung 60m or less
I’d keep the flying runs on the short speed day
Many thanks Charlie, I have kept the weights sessions to the high intensity days and they always follow the track work. We do tempo and med ball/bodyweight conditioning the day after each high intensity session. The only session in the week where this differs is a unit of weights followed by drills over longer distance e.g. 60m >.
How do you use the 60s in this case? Thanks!
top cat so no matter on whatever days as long as you get atleast 2 days of top speed or accels in with a fresh CNS everything will be fine in adaptation? Should the accels and top speed work be consistent throughout in terms of mesocycle eg. 3 weeks hard 1 week easy 3 weeks hard?
That’s an interesting question. I think the point here is “with a fresh CNS”. Is it possible to get adaptation without one? Do realise that Charlie has written a template for 2 days high 4 low (it’s in the forum review ebook). I think you underestimate the importance of tempo - especially for a lower level athlete.
I don’t completely understand your question. 3 up 1 down is a rule of thumb. I don’t think you loose anything (in fact ultimately you gain) by running stuff at 95% - so long as it isn’t all of the time.
In previous year, the tempo that I performed was at a much lower level, and yes it helped cardiovascularly I didnt feel i helped my high intensity days. Until this year when actually doing tempo near the 75% range how much it actually helps the higher intensity days. So when performing a long to short with 2 days of high intensity tempo would be very helpful and would be definalty be a lot of work.
tempo work makes me overtrain even if i do it very light in intensity. although it seemed im more in shape like mr surfer it did not improve my work capacity for high intensity days, it was the same throughout. Plus doing tempo where i live is a pain in the ass (always raining, cold winds,) i dont like that since im a tropical man.
try the med circuit that may help.
I wonder if that is because you were doing a long to short and so the intensity is lower allowing you to spend more intensity during tempo?
How many years did you do it for? It takes time to see the effects (at least 6 months) Med ball and bike sound like a good idea. Plus with tempo as with anything hard you really need some team mates to make it more bareable!
i can do tempo by myself i have no problems i just cant do it with the horrible weather. I cant tolerate heavy rain and freezing winds blowing all over the place, which is during the offseason and this climate change has made it even worse the winter seems to have pronlonged around here. I heard an indoor track is being built in richmond so i will prob drive there in the future for some training.
Yeah im aware of tempo taking awhile for its effects to kick in, but by the time i can do them effectively which is now competition is around the corner, i have to find a partner for med ball circuits as the gym i go to is to small and im not part of a track club no more.