Watts output & c.n.s exercizes.

Expert Discussion Strength Training
1

I have this Charlie Francis quote from another thread;…

There was a study done by a Prof Gord Robertson in 1987 on Ben that showed output at the hamstring around the hip at 3500 watts while at the same time the output at the ankle was 500 watts.
Beyond that, I don’t have any “secret tables” for sale or anything (hmmm… that’s a thought!) nor did I ever use any such quantified information in the development of training plans.
I just want you to think about how work is distributed and what the cumulative effects are…
_______________________________________…

My (Goose232) question is;

Are there any non-sprint exercises that compare well to watts output at the hip extensors to sprinting?

Snatches?
P.cleans?
Behind overhead med-ball throw?
Kettlebell/dumbell snatches?
Do they compare well in terms of over-all c.n.s stimulas compared to sprinting?

Can c.n.s stimulas of slightly sub-max, but a few more sets or reps be as effective as max for improving running speed?

2

I think there are very high watt outputs from Oly lifts, etc, but the total of watt output is more limited (think of the number of reps/steps in a sprint session).

3

got this from another memeber on the forum measure your watt out put (poor mans tendo poor mans v scope)

http://www.maxrack.com/power_factor.htm

4

Do you know anyone who has one of these? Looks very interesting. I wonder if it’s reliable.

5

I’d actually be more interested to know how this was assessed or measured?

6

Here’s a nice article about power output for different exercises (Table 3 shows wattage for different exercises).

Article

7

So without me delving into past threads and CFTS, are power cleans/snatches recommended for the sprinter or are they redundant? Indicentally (hijack), it looks like I’ll be able to get up to Toronto on December 11. Should I still contact your assistant for scheduling specifics?

8

yes pc and pc are recommended for sprinters, pc early in the yr then snatch later is tech is there

9

Regarding the power at the hip demonstrated by Ben, the second pull in the snatch has the potential to generate approximately 155% more power. Assuming this percentage is applicable for the typical sprinter performing power snatches, theoretically will training the power snatch enable the sprinter/athlete to produce more power (in competition) than simply performing the back squat and accompanied by conventional sprint training?

10

The power clean is useful - but not necessary.

The use of PC needs to be balanced with technique and the other training elements in place in the program.

In fact I could argue a very good case aginst it in many instances

11

http://nsca.allenpress.com/nscaonline/?request=index-html

12

available at http://nsca.allenpress.com/nscaonline/?request=index-html

13

Could it be argued that weight training is not needed then?

14

To generate more watts you may still need weight training. This is not the only reason why but its a good enough reason to continue with a well planned strength training routine.

15

I believe it could. You could possibly replace it with med ball & resisted runs.

16

As a side note: Power clean generates more “power” (watts) and Power snatch generates more “speed” (time). The figures on this are given on each of the tapes by World Class Weightlifting.

17

I think you can get away with not using lifting but ideally you want access to as large a pool of exercises and training methods as possible. After all you never know what is going to happen in the future and since movement patterns take a long long time to perfect (e.g. olympic lifts) you have to start young so the exercises are effective at the point in the athletes lives when they may need them. So if I had a kid who I knew at 14 was going to be potentially world class I would do everything in my power to get them gymnastics and OL coaching. If nothing else it will help with co-ordination and learning new skills.

Re snatch power output vs sprinting (Bob) I’m sure you can generate a lot more power with the snatch than any other human movement. The question (contention) arrises from the fact that in a speed session of 500m you may have 225 foot contacts. Multiply power output per stride x number of repetitions for speed work vs the number of snatch repetitions you could perform at the exceptionally high power output and you have the basis of an arguement for sprinting being a higher power output per session than olympic lifting.

18

olympic lifts are not the highest possible poweroutput movement someone can do in training. an alititude drop has the ability to force the body to generate more power.

19

do you have anything to back that up? studies, etc.?

20

yea they are out there but simply think for yourself… if u drop from a height how hard is the given impact, and how does it very with increases in height. then to absorb the force how much force must your body absorb rapidly just to keep you from falling on your ass.