Sport specific: sorry in advance for the long question!
I am almost done reading Supertraining (finally!). I am still confused on the
concept of the strength deficit (on page 9 of the second edidtion). Here is what
I got from it.
For pulling or jumping exercises:
Use a Ballistic Vert. VS. Vert. from static 1/4 squat to find the deficit.
If there is a big difference one should focus on 5RM - 8RM using C.A.T to
increase power. If the difference is small one should focus on shock/plyo
training.
Then in the next paragraph it states in general for certain muscle groups to
increase power:
If there is a Large Deficit use maximal neuromuscular stimulation (I am assuming
shock methods).
Then if there is a Small Deficit train for hypertorophy by using submaximal
loads followed by maximal effort against heavy loads.
These two paragraphs seem to contradict each other, could someone please explain
what I am missing.
The next part of my question is how should I be training to maximize my lower
body power. My main concern is lifting heavy weights, but I would also like some
hops so I can take to my boys when we play hoops. I am now 26 and have been
lifting for 11 years, for the past 2 years I have been utilizing the westside
methods pretty consitantly, before that I would experiment with whatever program
I came accross. In 8th grade before I started weight training, I could touch the
rim at only 5’11" tall. Now, I can still just touch the rim at 5’ 11". I realize
jumping is a skill, but with my strength I would think I could jump higher.
Here are my stats:BWT- 260lb @ 20%BF
Ballilstic Vert.- 26", 5 second Static 1/4 squat vert. - 23"
Concentric portion of squat w/ belt and knee wraps - 570lbs. in 1.29seconds,
585lbs. in 2.97 seconds
Deadlift (timed from initial application of force to lockout with a belt) -
545lbs in 1.63seconds, 575lbs. in 3.24seconds, and 600lbs. in 5.46 seconds.
So you have read the WHOLE of Supertraining! That is one major undertaking! I read journal articles all day and I can tell you Supertraining is a hard book to follow at times!
If you’re still not clear i’d buy CT’s ebooks here at CF.com. They are easy to read and he explains things really well. Plus it is much more practically based and you will will probably find yourself making the connections with the stuff in Supertraining and everything will start to click. Did you notice the template for the whole westside system in the sections on periodisation. It is as if Louise lifted it right out of the pages and applied it or perhaps Mel rewrote it that way having talked with Louise.
I have the 6th edition from 2003. In this strength deficit is mentioned on the same page
but there is no talk of “Ballistic Vert. VS. Vert. from static 1/4 squat to find the deficit.” In fact, unless i have missed it there is no mention of how to practically establish the strength deficit anywhere in that section (e.g. without a lab).
As for the answer. The lower the strength deficit the more hypertrophy work you need to do. The greater the deficit the more Speed-Strength work (shock).
The next part of my question is how should I be training to maximize my lower
body power. My main concern is lifting heavy weights, but I would also like some
hops so I can take to my boys when we play hoops. I am now 26 and have been
lifting for 11 years, for the past 2 years I have been utilizing the westside
methods pretty consitantly, before that I would experiment with whatever program
I came accross. In 8th grade before I started weight training, I could touch the
rim at only 5’11" tall. Now, I can still just touch the rim at 5’ 11". I realize
jumping is a skill, but with my strength I would think I could jump higher.
Here are my stats:BWT- 260lb @ 20%BF
Ballilstic Vert.- 26", 5 second Static 1/4 squat vert. - 23"
Concentric portion of squat w/ belt and knee wraps - 570lbs. in 1.29seconds,
585lbs. in 2.97 seconds
Deadlift (timed from initial application of force to lockout with a belt) -
545lbs in 1.63seconds, 575lbs. in 3.24seconds, and 600lbs. in 5.46 seconds.
Thanks in advance for any help!!
You are right. Jumping, especially with a BBall is a major skill. Learning to dunk is as much about learning how to coordinate yourself so you reach max height just above the ring as it is about increasing your vertical.
I don’t know how good your vertical jump is in comparison to other athletes your size because I’ve never trained anyone over 210lbs. I checked some NFL combine scores and saw a few 260-300lb athletes jumping 37"! Which seems insane. I assume they also have BF at around 20%. But these guys will be freaks so I’m not too sure what a realistic value would be.
Simple things first. If you really want to increase your VJ you could probably get to at least 28-30" simply by dropping 30lbs. Of course your numbers will suffer if you do this.
At a guess. I’d say 32"-35" or so would probably be your max genetic potential even with serious fat loss.
If you don’t want to loose the weight then your only other option is skill practice because at 260lbs I’d be very hesitant about doing depth jumps or any high intensity plyos.
Your best bet is to actually practice jumping. Practice decending rapidly and trying to hang in the air as long as possible. Do box jumps up and build up to jumps down from 26" and stick the landing. Use low volume and be progressive. Jumping down from 26" might seem easy but that is a lot of force you are absorbing so work up to it.
---------- personal experience --------
When I played BBall at 17 I went from being able to just touch the rim with one hand to being able to dunk 2 handed (only just) in 8 months simply by practicing jumping. I was 5"11. At that point I didn’t do any strength training. However, I got really bad shin splints because i did too much volume.
5 years later my squat was up to 2.2xBW for 3 reps but I hadn’t jumped in 3 years. When i tried it I could only just hang on the ring with 1 hand from a 2 footed jump. I hope you can see how important jump practice is. Squatting alone won’t help that much. Interestingly, however, my 100m time dropped by 1.5sec during that time with no running what so ever! (I wanted to completely cure the shin splints so i cut out everything except weights and focused on my studying)
For pulling or jumping exercises:
Use a Ballistic Vert. VS. Vert. from static 1/4 squat to find the deficit.
If there is a big difference one should focus on 5RM - 8RM using C.A.T to
increase power. If the difference is small one should focus on shock/plyo
training.
Then in the next paragraph it states in general for certain muscle groups to
increase power:
If there is a Large Deficit use maximal neuromuscular stimulation (I am assuming
shock methods).
Then if there is a Small Deficit train for hypertorophy by using submaximal
loads followed by maximal effort against heavy loads.
See Dude’s post above for 1 possible practicle solution. Bear in mind that the idea of a strength deficit is really an academic thing. How accuratly these practicle tests corelate to lab results I don’t know. Anyone have any research in this area?
I wouldn’t worry too much about it. You will get more results in terms of speed by focusing on your sprint training as outlined by CF rather than distracting yourself with the idea of a strength deficit. Its just fun to know about it thats all. Unless you are at a very high level i would simply keep a record every couple of months and see if it changes rather than alter your training because of it.
dude51 I just read that page in supertrainng like 5x and I think my brain is shutting down…it does seem to be a contridiction??? But I must be analyzing it wrong. :mad:
There are no contradictions just misinterpretation.
Use a Ballistic Vert. VS. Vert. from static 1/4 squat to find the deficit.
The first exercise (Ballistic Vert.) is aka squat jump with a countermovement jump and the second “Vert, from static” is a squat jump from 1/4 position with a hold to remove the influence of the elastic component prior to executing the jump from the low position. The countermovement jump (CMJ) is usually greater than the static squat jump because of the recoil and elastic components adding to the jump. If there is a small difference between the two then you need to do more elastic/plyo type jump training. If there is a big difference between the two then you need to do more maximal strength training (circa 85%> of max strength) or in some cases compensationary acceleration training (CAT)
Maximal neuromuscular stimulation (MNS) is also known as neuromuscular activation method (NAM) or maximal strength training.
In short if CMJ>static SJ by 10cm then NAM is needed