Train slower to race faster- Clyde Hart

[AthleticsCoach]

@Davan

LSU now uses short-to-long for both short and long sprints. This includes their recent collegiate record 4x4 and absolutely dominant and deep 400m runners (I believe they had 2 seperate teams that ran under 4:04 if I recall).

I think that you mean 3:04.

As for the whole short-to-long vs. long-to-short arguement, I can tell you that LSU DOES NOT run the former program for either their men or women. What Shaver does can best be described as “Ends-to-the-Middle” with a heavy speed emphasis. They still do int. tempo. Shaver has just figured out that doing alot of it isn’t great for the football types that he is getting and that most of the guys had plenty of this type work in the bank from years with Pat Henry.

[AthleticsCoach]

@Charlie_Francis

Wouldn’t the 350s be considered the high intensity work- with times progressing into the HI zone?

Yes based on the times that they are running AND that these runs are done in racing flats, these and other part of the late season plan should be considered high intensity.

[AthleticsCoach]

@TopCat

I personally think gradual change is perhaps one of the most overlooked yet important aspects of a training plan. It’s like your hair growing… one day you wake up and go “wow” (e.g. at a race) but you never see the changes happening.

How long did Charlie work with Ben? There in lies much of the answer.

This is the core of the matter. Most coaches want a quick results, especially in the US collegiate system, due to the cash investment (scholarships), pressure for results, and limited time frame.

Finding the core principles, doing less rather than more, and learning how not to hurt your people should always be the primary considerations in my mind.

[AthleticsCoach]

@Pioneer

LSU used to have a decent number of kids who did both football and track but now it seems like only one or so. I could only find Trindon Holliday who competes in both sports.

New football staff, new philososphy. Simple as that I suspect.

[AthleticsCoach]

@Charlie_Francis

This sounds a bit like John Smith’s approach, where he used the 350s and kept them over 40sec for a substantial part of the year. As the athletes’ capacities went up, he first shortened the breaks to stay at or above the 40s barier but then spread the breaks out to classic full recoveries which yielded terrificly fast 350s near the meets. In his case, the 350s were considered as SE.

Just as with your “big circuit” John effectively copied the 350 progression form Clyde. I called him on it in @1990 and he stumbled and stammered, but finally did say something to the effect that Hart had “influenced” him.

[Charlie_Francis]

@AthleticsCoach

Just as with your “big circuit” John effectively copied the 350 progression form Clyde. I called him on it in @1990 and he stumbled and stammered, but finally did say something to the effect that Hart had “influenced” him.

John told me in 1988 that he used basically the same 400m prep that we had done but switched the 300s that I used for 350s to take advantage of the 40sec threshold as described by Hart. The rest was as I posted earlier.

[Davan]

@AthleticsCoach

I think that you mean 3:04.

As for the whole short-to-long vs. long-to-short arguement, I can tell you that LSU DOES NOT run the former program for either their men or women. What Shaver does can best be described as “Ends-to-the-Middle” with a heavy speed emphasis. They still do int. tempo. Shaver has just figured out that doing alot of it isn’t great for the football types that he is getting and that most of the guys had plenty of this type work in the bank from years with Pat Henry.

Mike Young, a former coach at LSU & owner of elitetrack.com, has said otherwise. He said that in the last 2 years the system has switched from being more clyde hart like to short-to-long, which included the 2x3:04 season (my bad on the 4) and collegiate record, and 2x NCAA titles.

[Davan]

Also, could you share some more info that you have on Shaver’s system? It would be interesting for sure!

[AthleticsCoach]

@Davan

Mike Young, a former coach at LSU & owner of elitetrack.com, has said otherwise. He said that in the last 2 years the system has switched from being more clyde hart like to short-to-long, which included the 2x3:04 season (my bad on the 4) and collegiate record, and 2x NCAA titles.

I think that key words would be “something like” short-to-long. I haven’t spoken to Mike, but I do chat with Dennis Shaver every now and again. What he does is definately speed based, as opposed to Henry’s endurance based approach, but the progressions are different from what Charlie would espouse.

There are examples of what Shaver does out there. He simply transferred what he was doing with the women over to the men. I got that from the “horse’s mouth” so to speak. No tempo 600’s, and with the football guys, I doubt that he went much over race distance, but they still touch in the 80-90% range some.

[AthleticsCoach]

@Davan

Also, could you share some more info that you have on Shaver’s system? It would be interesting for sure!

Sure, no problem, but give me a little time to recover and catch up from this passed weekend’s meet.

[AthleticsCoach]

@Charlie_Francis

John told me in 1988 that he used basically the same 400m prep that we had done but switched the 300s that I used for 350s to take advantage of the 40sec threshold as described by Hart. The rest was as I posted earlier.

We allow “borrow.” I’ve even managed to learn from you and KitKat .

[Charlie_Francis]

@AthleticsCoach

We allow “borrow.” I’ve even managed to learn from you and KitKat .

Sure, that’s the point. Isn’t it?

[AthleticsCoach]

@Charlie_Francis

Sure, that’s the point. Isn’t it?

I wouldn’t be here for any other reason.

[Pioneer]

@AthleticsCoach

New football staff, new philososphy. Simple as that I suspect.

I’m wondering if Les Miles(having just finished his second season as the h.c.) is adopting the Gerry DiNardo philosophy of zero sharing of guys with track? Anyone here know?

[pierrejean]

Some quotes from Sanya Richard’s diary on iaaf.org

http://www.iaaf.org/news/Kind=2/newsId=37416.html

She splits her time and training between Austin and Waco, Texas, where she trains with coach Clyde Hart and training partner Jeremy Wariner.

“I started training again in the second week of November, mainly with just some long runs, 30 minutes or 40 minutes. But I’ve also been very busy these past few months, traveling quite a bit. It’s been kind of hectic.”

“[Training partner Jeremy Wariner] and I are both not competing indoors, so this will be the longest period of base training ever. That’s really making the training harder, but we’ll be much stronger when the season comes. And we’ll be ready to run more quality races, more quality over quantity.”

“Our training sessions with Coach [Clyde] Hart are becoming more difficult. He keeps records of all of our sessions from the past years. And we have to tweak each workout, for example, increase them by five per cent. Over the past three years the hardest workouts were two times 800 [metres]. This year it’s going to be two times 1000. They’re overwhelmingly harder. [laughs]. I barely got through the first one. They’re paced to reach each 400 in 80 seconds. We have eight minutes rest in between and we do these once a week. That’s after lifting weights in the morning, and afterwards there are timed cool-downs.”

“I definitely want to do the 200/400 double at the World Championships. With the schedule it’s looking a little tough, but I definitely want to qualify in the 200 for the World Athletics Final and double there, so I’ll run at least six 200 races.”

[Running_Machine]

@pierrejean

“Our training sessions with Coach [Clyde] Hart are becoming more difficult. He keeps records of all of our sessions from the past years. And we have to tweak each workout, for example, increase them by five per cent. Over the past three years the hardest workouts were two times 800 [metres]. This year it’s going to be two times 1000. They’re overwhelmingly harder. [laughs]. I barely got through the first one. They’re paced to reach each 400 in 80 seconds. We have eight minutes rest in between and we do these once a week. That’s after lifting weights in the morning, and afterwards there are timed cool-downs.”

I find it interesting that Hart focusses more on intermediate splits than actual times. It was something he touched on in the article at www.sports-fitness.com that was discussed a few pages back too.

Any ideas as to why this is a theme with him?

[boldwarrior]

pace judgement. one could be running say 200s in 30s by running for 170m way too fast and just backing right off at the end, just to get the 30s.
its actually a nice way to do it i think… it sounds like something worth trying out

[Running_Machine]

I’m sure that is why he uses the beeper to go at what should be every 50m in the 200m session but on the longer efforts I get the impression he just sets an intermediate split and doesn’t get hung up on the total time.

Anyone know if this is the case?

[flettotenko]

when baylor get down to 3-200s in 23 and 4-200s in 24 with very short rest like 1min30sec, for those athletes that can handle this session, do they still run with the beeper cause it would be beeping every 6 seconds for 24sec. and every 5.75 seconds for 23 sec?

If they do run with the beeper still at this 4in24sec. workout and 3in23sec. workout, it would be like a split run speed work-out as well as a strength endurance run when u factor in the short recovery.

So the first 50m of the run, 5.75-6.00s, would be speed-work for a majority of 400 & 200 runners and the final 150m of the run, combined with the first 50m, for 23-24s, would be strength endurance at the come home pace of the final 200m for a 44-46sec. quarter miler.

For how many weeks do they carry out this work-out before they cut back to more quantity type 6or7runs in 26or27sec. from this quality type 3or4runs in 23or24sec?

[Charlie_Francis]

@flettotenko

when baylor get down to 3-200s in 23 and 4-200s in 24 with very short rest like 1min30sec, for those athletes that can handle this session, do they still run with the beeper cause it would be beeping every 6 seconds for 24sec. and every 5.75 seconds for 23 sec?

If they do run with the beeper still at this 4in24sec. workout and 3in23sec. workout, it would be like a split run speed work-out as well as a strength endurance run when u factor in the short recovery.

So the first 50m of the run, 5.75-6.00s, would be speed-work for a majority of 400 & 200 runners and the final 150m of the run, combined with the first 50m, for 23-24s, would be strength endurance at the come home pace of the final 200m for a 44-46sec. quarter miler.

For how many weeks do they carry out this work-out before they cut back to more quantity type 6or7runs in 26or27sec. from this quality type 3or4runs in 23or24sec?

I assume that, as the beeper is set to go off at even intervals, that they use a running start for intervals??? If not, how does it work?