Lets see; using MJ as the example;
30s 300m, = approx 35s 350m
Add 25% (8.75s)
= 43.75s
Even if you add 1.25s for slowing fatigue, thats a 45s.
Looking at it again, add 20% due to having a higher O2 base due to being a better efficient machine like you said;
35s 350m max
add 20% - 7s
= 42s
So, are they delving into the middle range? Not if laid out correctly… What might be a max run for a lot of guys here, is only tempo for the Best. :eek:
Tempo does not have to be easy to do, and, in fact, can be plenty tough, but it is the separation of times into high and low that is important IMO. This is why I alway moved the break times in shorter as the time threshold was approached.
Why can’t the last rep be tough to do at the selected pace?
What is your point about speed makers? Are they not in fact high intensity?
Aouita describes a similar speed separation. was he not going deep into the aerobic capability??
Are you in fact equating the difficulty of the session with its selected execution speed?
Not at all Charlie. With regard to the speed makers I was replying to bold warriors statement “speed makers, looked like, sprint the straight jog the bend”, just filling in the gaps.
I wasn’t suggesting the last rep can’t be tough, I wasn’t saying anything. I was just asking that although, for MJ, the 6x200’s in the Baylor programme are roughly 75%, the other 2 endurance workouts progress between 75% and 95% (Based on his fastest recorded 350 being 37.18 in Seville, and not dodgey suppositions.) and the fact that Jeremy is running the same times in practice, with substantially less recovery even though his personal best for 200m is just under a second slower, if as you increase your aerobic abilities (not just best time for that distance) if you can push the times further into that 75%-95% bracket.
As an aside the last rep is not always done at the selected pace, they often come in well under due to the increased effort (and for women increased distance). To paraphrase “They’ve got all day to throwup afterwards”.
Dazed,
Are you sure Wariner was taking just 65 seconds between 200’s?
Check this article out:
As stated in another thread, the progrssions in Coach Hart’s program come through the reduction of recovery time, not by increases in tempo.
As recovery shortens, it may be that the latest breaks are 65sec and earlier breaks were longer.
Wouldn’t the 350s be considered the high intensity work- with times progressing into the HI zone?
Looking at the articles on Clyde Hart I’m surprised at how the training follows the same formula week-in week-out. Not the same sessions but you can see that each week is not too far different to the previous week. I might have expected more variety.
It is also amazing how little quality work is being done.
Someone has said it is guys with quick 200m PRs who thrive best off this system but 19.32 says that it works to improve speed too.
On the other hand it allows more effective adaptations where it counts, I guess.
Conversely, look at Wariner. His 200m PR is not much better than in high school (he ran 20.4 in high school). MJ’s abilities were incredibly under developed, which must be taken into consideration.
Until the first half of last season, he had not really run many 200’s since his 20.41 from h.s. and still has not run many 200’s in total. I say this just to point out that it is entirely possible(though no one knows for sure, of course) that he is capable of a faster time than his current p.r. since he has not run it often compared to the 400.
At the USATF champs last year I seem to remember him p.r.ing in the semis with a late race shutdown yet in the finals he ran slower-possibly the increased neural fatigue of 200’s he was not accustomed to took their toll. It seemed as though he had another tenth of a second in his semi race. I’m not saying he is in MJ’s class in the 200 only that I believe he is capable of a much faster time than his current p.r.
He ran 200s in 5 meets (prob 8 200m races or so) and his best was just under 20.2. Very good, but when you think about his 20.4x in high school, it seems like this is what you would expect from somebody who is training full time. With his massive 400m improvement, it is possible his speed and special endurance have improved, rather than max speed. I just don’t know if you can say the system does a great job at improving speed aside from Michael Johnson. Of course there is improvement–you are taking teenagers w/o much training and a lot of talent–but some other college programs seem to do a better job at improving speed. Look at LSU’s program, among others.
I personally think gradual change is perhaps one of the most overlooked yet important aspects of a training plan. It’s like your hair growing… one day you wake up and go “wow” (e.g. at a race) but you never see the changes happening.
I am most definitely NOT saying it is a good program for speed development only that I view JW as likely being a better 200m guy than what his limited atttempts there would indicate. I agree with those who say that only those who have been extremely undertrained and/or come into the program with a great deal of speed appear to be successful.
It does appear that with this apparent move to more of an extensive tempo protocol(in addition to all of the other things they do) that they are not only getting better results but much fewer injuries as well as that article suggests. In the 90’s they seemed to have a number of guys get hurt and stay hurt. I’d say we are pretty much in agreement.
BTW re:Michael Johnson. It might have been posted on this site or elsewhere but evidently his best 200m in h.s. was 21.3 but was said to be very undertrained having practiced/trained only three times/week.
That is what I would think, but when ever I’ve seen anyone doing this programme (MJ, Wariner and Williamson) the 350’s are run at the same pace as the 200’s, with quite short recoveries (MJ was popping them out off 3 min just before Syd, however was only doing them off 5min when he was here in 98 - but that was earlier in the season). The times for them were VERY quick for such a short rest - but not wht you’d call high quality special end.
The 20.47 was wind assisted, his other times were substantially slower.
LSU are so damn consistant across the board. It will be interesting to see the progressions of Xman staying where he is and Kelly Willy moving to John Smith.
LSU now uses short-to-long for both short and long sprints. This includes their recent collegiate record 4x4 and absolutely dominant and deep 400m runners (I believe they had 2 seperate teams that ran under 4:04 if I recall).
Makes sense when your team has a number of footballers that have good conditioning and accelleration.
LSU used to have a decent number of kids who did both football and track but now it seems like only one or so. I could only find Trindon Holliday who competes in both sports.
This sounds a bit like John Smith’s approach, where he used the 350s and kept them over 40sec for a substantial part of the year. As the athletes’ capacities went up, he first shortened the breaks to stay at or above the 40s barier but then spread the breaks out to classic full recoveries which yielded terrificly fast 350s near the meets. In his case, the 350s were considered as SE.