Time for a chnage in workouts?

Expert Discussion Advanced Sprint Training
1

Recently I have been working out, I am in midseason, SPP so to say AND i AM NOT GETTING RESULTS THAT I want. you could say some things are gettign stale. I feel that I need to change something in order to get the results I need to achieve…but then again I feel like I am missing something that I need to put into my workouts…here is what a current template would look like:

Monday:
resistance(isorobic exerciser)-3 reps
Accel and Max V:
3x30m
4xflying 30’s (20)
Weights-max strength (bench,squat,DL, Power clean, 1 supp lift)
Plyos(depth jumps, box jumps, SLJ)

Tuesday:
Tempo(2000-2500m)
MB Work
Circuits(light lifting etc)

Wednesday
SE1-3-4x250m w/10-12 min rest
Weights-max strength (bench,squat,DL, Power clean, 1 supp lift)
Plyos(depth jumps, box jumps, SLJ)

Thursday:
same as tuesday

Friday:
similar to monday except:
3-4x30m
3-4x60m sprints

i’m thinking that maybe i need to switch up the way to develop my MaxV…right now my times are not as fast as where they SHOULD be (30-55-60) and am wondering if i need to switch things up like mayve start doing different lifts? or mixing up distances in maxv work (2x50 2x55 2x60 etc for example)

if you wnat more info just check out my training journal

any thoughts of what I need changed or why my speed workouts are kind of stale? If i am missing soemthing tell me! thanks for the help.

2

anybody? people post on subjects with no point so i don’t see why you can’t post on something that actually deals with training…

3

All of this should be read with a grain of salt as I do not really know your situation, nor do I know you as an athlete. This is just a few ideas for breaking the monotony out of your training. You might find others hesitant to comment because you have not really given us much to go by here. Just looking at your microcycle will not help in getting an idea for what all could be changed. Give us a look at about 6-8weeks worth in order for us to get a real idea. With this in mind I will throw out a few ideas.

Just looking at this I might recommend trying a 2:1, 3:1 microcycle. Do an extended warm up on Monday, Highly intense work on Tuesday, tempo work on Wednesday, Intense on Thursday, an extended warmup on Friday and Hammer it on Sat and Sun.

What are you doing for recovery and monitoring your recovery? This is just as important as the training stimulus. You should be getting massage, timing your meals and the type of nutrition you are taking in. You should be monitoring and emphasising getting enough good sleep. Your Macrocycles might have a week that is at 80% of the max training load then a week that is 100% of a max followed by a week that is 70% then on to 85% and 100% then a 40% week. Treat the down weeks like a taper increase the intensity of the work but decrease the frequency. On your days in between intense work do the extended warm up. As you get into your competitive period change the order of these microcycles to start with 100% then drop on down to the other loading parameters. Also cut it to four weeks rather than 6 weeks. 100%, 85%, 100%, 40%. Others will probably like to comment here.

Change the type of stimulis that you are focusing on as well. Work one three week macrocycle on power and the other on pure speed. Every once in a while go through a three week period where you go through Speed Education: Tuesday acceleration practice (repeats <30m), Wednesday Pure Speed (repeats <60m), Thursday Speed End (repeats <120m), Friday Off, Saturday Pure Speed (repeats <60m), and on Sunday Special Endurance 1 or 2( 150 - 300m or 300m - 600m repeats). Chicken Soup!

Perhaps change the days that you are training to get yourself out of the routine.

Basically, if you are not already doing so, mix it up to change the stimulis. Let us know how it goes.

TDickson

4

It’s possible that you might be overdoing it. 3 CNS day’s a week is a lot if you’re doing all your sprints at 100%, and lifting hardcore. I find really intense CNS stuff twice a week is enough for me (but that’s highly personal). Another suggestion is that you do more 95% speed work, instead of just gunning it all the time, it will help you sprint more relaxed, and you may find when you go back to 100% work, you’ll be faster. Also, I’ve noticed that you Speed Endurance is done with really low quality, I don’t know why this is. Either take more rest, or you may need just way more general fitness, or you may not be built for longer distances (this sounds stupid, but if you’re a larger, ‘power sprinter’, your body may just not be naturally equipped for longer stuff). You’re doing your 250’s in 36.0 at your fastest, for someone with 10.8 speed, I would expect 31 seconds, maybe 32-33 at the slowest.

I’m not trying to be critical because your 100 times way better than mine, and I think your general setup is pretty good actually. These are just sort of random thoughts I have about your program.

5

I’ve just browsed through your training diary, Fabio.

  1. This winter you were apparently making progress at a faster rate than last year, according to your diary: achieving standards in September and October that you do not normally attain until January or February.

  2. Your progress has stagnated somewhat the last week or two, and you feel this is a bad thing.

First off, I’m not so sure you’re stagnating, it’s too early to tell. What you have done is quickly re-attain speed and acceleration levels you previously had (albeit later in the season). This is a much easier task than pushing your times into completely new territory. We all wish we could take a tenth off our 60m times each and every month indefinitely. Well, if wishes were horses …

Secondly, with respect to acceleration, I notice you’re lifting lesser loads the last week or two compared to the periods in September and October when you were very pleased with your progression. Also you seem to have been lifting more or less the same loads in the back squat the past three months ( 3x4x240#-260# or thereabouts). Don’t know about you but with me, ceteris paribus, the heavier I squat and clean the better I accelerate; conversely if I don’t gradually ratchet up weights I don’t improve much either. This might be the case with you too.

Thirdly, I would like to echo Alex’s opinion that your SE times are underwhelming. For a 10.8 sprinter 4x250 in 36 - 40 seconds (with 10min rest between reps!) is practically extensive tempo. Or at least should be. May I suggest that, if you are looking for ways to continue improvement, that you could put in a lot of work in the area of general fitness, lactic tolerance, work capacity, and special endurance. It won’t necessarily improve your 60m time by much but it will help your 100m and 200m, and in addition enable you to handle heavier work-loads in the spring.

6

I agree with snelkracht here. Looking at the differential between your 100 and 200 time you need more speed end work and general fitness work. I’d look at adding an interval working (4-8 x 200) with short recoveries and perhaps a strength end circuit as well.

Good luck

7

alright, i’ll post an example of a 6 week lay out of my typical plan later on in the evening since right now i am at school and wouldn’t have the time to right it all out.

sicne i am only in high school, massage is a little out of play for me but i do tend to get it every other month though. I try to eat as well as i can, only eating veggies, fruits, fish, lean meats etc…i take in 6-8 glasses of water a day. for Supps i take glutamine, creatine, ZMA, and a recovery post-workout drink. I go to bed around 9:30-10:00 and wake up around 6:30 on school days. Never drank in my life and have never done any drugs.

Alex, i wouldn’t exaclty call myself a power sprinter, i’m around 5’7-5’8 and 145 lbs. Yes my 100m time is good but if you look at my 200 time (23.4) its horrible. I did recognize this as a lack of general fitness which is why i do around 2000-2500m of tempo unlike last year where i was lucky to do 1600m of ext,. tempo. Alex, don’t worry if my 100 time is better than yours, that doesn’t mean you don’t know more than me! Cause you probably do know more than me!

Snelkracht,
I shifted to lesser loads due to the switch in workout facilities, i now train and lift at an indoor complex which has no real squat rack so i raise their bench press up to make a “makeshift” squat rack, with nothing but the bench from supporting me if i fail to rise which made me lighten the loads. But now since my body has gotten used to it, i feel it is safe to raise the loads now.

so talking about speed end work, would 5x250m with 5 min rest be good for that to get myself up to beat? I defintiely care about my 100 and 200m time more than my 60m time, indoor track isn’t even offically recognized in ohio as an offical high school sport, so my main focus is outdoors. but i thought the type of work with 5 min rest between it (lnger runs) mixes fast with slow twitch which is essentially bad? thoughts?

if i were to do lactic tolerance and special endurance trainning, wherewould i put them in my training schedule?

i’m setting up some nice circuits right now. I am just going to finish up this week and not change anything mid-week. instead i am going to modify it for next weeks workouts. i’ll post it up here for you guys to OK later on.

thanks for the input guys, this is REALLY REALLY REALLY stringing things together.

8

See this discussion for some extra insight.

In particular, read the posts made by Dazed.

9

i get the point…

alright here is a 3:1 loading/unloading scheme of what my program looks like, i modified it this week though so it looks SLIGHTLY different than this…but here it goes…

WEEK 1
Monday
Resistance:3x30m Isorobic Exersciser

Accel and Speed-3x30m - 4x55m

Weights:
Bench Press-4x3 @ 90%
Back Squat-4x3 @ 90 %
Deadlift-4x3 @ 90% w/5 reps of depth jumps for 2 sets only
Power Clean-3x3 @ 90%
Supp lift, prolly rows-2x10

plyos:
Box Jump-2x5
Dept Jump-back to front-2x5

TUESDAY:
Tempo:
2x5x250m w/ 10 push ups and 20 crunches alternatin after each rep

Explosive MB:
Lunge Toss-2x5
Push Press-1-2x5
OH Toss-1x5

Strength. End. Weights:
Military Press-2x15
Bent over row-2x15
Leg Curl-2x15
Leg ext.-2x15

MB Core
crunch-3x10
sit-up-3x20
woodchopper-3x10
rev crunch-3x20
MB Twist-3x10
leg lift-3x15 seconds

WEDNESDAY
Special Endurance:
4x250m w/10-12 min

Weights:
Bench Press-3x3 @ 90%
Back Squat-3x3 @ 90 %
Deadlift-3x3 @ 90% w/5 reps of depth jumps for 2 sets only
Power Clean-3x3 @ 90%
Supp lift, prolly rows-2x10

plyos:
Box Jump-2x5
Dept Jump-back to front-2x5

Thursday
Tempo:
2x5x250m w/ 10 push ups and 20 crunches alternatin after each rep

Explosive MB:
Lunge Toss-2x5
Push Press-1-2x5
OH Toss-1x5

Strength. End. Weights:
Military Press-2x15
Bent over row-2x15
Leg Curl-2x15
Leg ext.-2x15

MB Core
crunch-3x10
sit-up-3x20
woodchopper-3x10
rev crunch-3x20
MB Twist-3x10
leg lift-3x15 seconds

FRIDAY
Resistance:3x30m Isorobic Exersciser

Accel and Speed-3x30m - 3xflying 30’s (30)

Weights:
Bench Press-4x3 @ 90%
Back Squat-4x3 @ 90 %
Deadlift-4x3 @ 90% w/5 reps of depth jumps for 2 sets only
Power Clean-3x3 @ 90%
Supp lift, prolly rows-2x10

plyos:
Box Jump-2x5
Dept Jump-back to front-2x5

WEEK 2
Monday
Resistance:3x30m Isorobic Exersciser

Accel and Speed-4x30m - 4xflying 30’s (30)

Weights:
Bench Press-1x3 @ 175, 1x3 @ 180 1x2 @ 185
Back Squat-2x3 @ 265 1x2 @ 270
Deadlift-2x3 @ 205 1x2 @ 215 w/ 5 depth jumps last 2 sets
Power Clean-2x3 @ 150 1x2 @ 155
Supp lift, prolly rows-2x10

plyos:
Box Jump-2x5
Dept Jump-back to front-2x5
SLJ-1x5

TUESDAY:
Tempo:
2x5x250m w/ 10 push ups and 20 crunches alternatin after each rep

Explosive MB:
Lunge Toss-2x5
Push Press-2x5
OH Toss-1x5

Strength. End. Weights:
Military Press-2x15
Bent over row-2x15
Leg Curl-2x15
Leg ext.-2x15

MB Core
crunch-3x10
sit-up-3x20
woodchopper-3x10
rev crunch-3x20
MB Twist-3x10
leg lift-3x15 seconds

WEDNESDAY
Special Endurance:
3x250m w/10-12 min

Weights:
Bench Press-1x3 @ 175, 1x3 @ 180 1x2 @ 185
Back Squat-2x3 @ 265 1x2 @ 270
Deadlift-2x3 @ 205 1x2 @ 215 w/ 5 depth jumps last 2 sets
Power Clean-2x3 @ 150 1x2 @ 155
Supp lift, prolly rows-2x10

plyos:
Box Jump-2x5
Dept Jump-back to front-2x5

Thursday
Tempo:
2x5x250m w/ 10 push ups and 20 crunches alternatin after each rep

Explosive MB:
Lunge Toss-2x5
Push Press-2x5
OH Toss-1x5

Strength. End. Weights:
Military Press-2x15
Bent over row-2x15
Leg Curl-2x15
Leg ext.-2x15

MB Core
crunch-3x10
sit-up-3x20
woodchopper-3x10
rev crunch-3x20
MB Twist-3x10
leg lift-3x15 seconds

FRIDAY
Resistance:3x30m Isorobic Exersciser

Accel and Speed-3x30m - 4x60m

Weights:
Bench Press-1x3 @ 175, 1x3 @ 180 1x2 @ 185
Back Squat-2x3 @ 265 1x2 @ 270
Deadlift-2x3 @ 205 1x2 @ 215 w/ 5 depth jumps last 2 sets
Power Clean-2x3 @ 150 1x2 @ 155
Supp lift, prolly rows-2x10

plyos:
Box Jump-2x5
Dept Jump-back to front-2x5
SLJ-1x5

WEEK 3
Monday
Resistance:3x30m Isorobic Exersciser

Accel and Speed-4x30m - 2xflying 30(20) -2x60m

Weights:
Bench Press-1x4 @ 175, 1x3 @ 180 1x2 @ 185
Back Squat-1x3 @ 265 1x3 @ 270 1x2 @ 275
Deadlift-1x3 @ 205 1x3 @ 210 1x3 @ 215 w/ 5 depth jumps last 2 sets
Power Clean-1x3 @ 150 2x2 @ 155
Supp lift, prolly rows-2x10

plyos:
Box Jump-2x5
Dept Jump-back to front-2x5
SLJ-2x5

TUESDAY:
Tempo:
2x5x250m w/ 10 push ups and 20 crunches alternatin after each rep

Explosive MB:
Lunge Toss-1x5
Push Press-2x5
OH Toss-1x5

Strength. End. Weights:
Military Press-2x15
Bent over row-2x15
Leg Curl-2x15
Leg ext.-2x15

MB Core
crunch-3x10
sit-up-3x20
woodchopper-3x10
rev crunch-3x20
MB Twist-3x10
leg lift-3x15 seconds

WEDNESDAY
Special Endurance:
3x250m w/10-12 min

Weights:
Bench Press-1x4 @ 175, 1x3 @ 180 1x2 @ 185
Back Squat-1x3 @ 265 1x3 @ 270 1x2 @ 275
Deadlift-1x3 @ 205 1x3 @ 210 1x3 @ 215 w/ 5 depth jumps last 2 sets
Power Clean-1x3 @ 150 2x2 @ 155
Supp lift, prolly rows-2x10

plyos:
Box Jump-2x5
Dept Jump-back to front-2x5

Thursday
Tempo:
2x5x250m w/ 10 push ups and 20 crunches alternatin after each rep

Explosive MB:
Lunge Toss-1x5
Push Press-1x5
OH Toss-1x5

Strength. End. Weights:
Military Press-2x15
Bent over row-2x15
Leg Curl-2x15
Leg ext.-2x15

MB Core
crunch-3x10
sit-up-3x20
woodchopper-3x10
rev crunch-3x20
MB Twist-3x10
leg lift-3x15 seconds

FRIDAY
Resistance:3x30m Isorobic Exersciser

Accel and Speed-3x30m - 2xflying 30 (30) 2x55m

Weights:
Bench Press-1x3 @ 175, 1x3 @ 180 1x2 @ 185
Back Squat-2x3 @ 265 1x2 @ 270
Deadlift-2x3 @ 205 1x2 @ 215 w/ 5 depth jumps last 2 sets
Power Clean-2x3 @ 150 1x2 @ 155
Supp lift, prolly rows-2x10

plyos:
Box Jump-2x5
Dept Jump-back to front-2x5
SLJ-2x5

and the fourth week would be typical unloadign week, which means i wouldn’t do plyos, or resistance sprints, weights would go down to 2 sets but high intensity and speed volume would more than likely be cut by 40-50% but intensity is stil high

thoughts?

10

also how long would you think i would need ot be doing lactic capacity training? for 1 3:1 cycle? and when would i know that it would be time to move on into special endurance? would it be based on “feel” , times etc or what?

11

Hmmm.

I don’t know that your original schedule was that bad, considering you made decent progress on it, and two weeks of ‘marking time’ is not necessarily disastrous.

Cycling loads is a good idea.

5 days of lifting a week is excessive, unless there’s some particular short-term goal you wish to attain. I would personally cut out the weights on tempo days. Tempo days are recovery days.

Longer work can be done after aceleration and speedwork. Exactly how you plan the loading depends on your current condition and capacity. I can’t judge that from here.

The general idea is to first build work capacity. Looking at your original schedule, I would build it via intensive tempo. The key in this phase is manipulating volume and recovery times between reps, and not so much shooting for continuously faster times. If you can run, say, 4x250m with 10min rest in 36s per rep, with good form, try running 4x250m in 36s with 8 min per rep the next week. And after that 6min rest per rep. And so on, until you can run 250m with a 150m walkthrough in 36s.

Of course this is a general indicator. You can manipulate volume too: if you can run, say, 4x250m R 2’ in 36s how about trying for 6x200 R 2’ in 29s. Or 3x350 R 3’ in 50s. If you stick too religiously to one format you might get stale. You also do not need to go balls-to-the-wall in each and every session.

There’s no real sharp boundary between different phases i.e. there’s no abrupt switch from training fitness, to training lactic acid tolerance, or between lactic sessions and special endurance sessions. The fitter you get, the more your work-capacity workouts will start shifting into lactic territory by themselves. You may start out by running 4x250 R 10’ in 36s without an iota of lactic, and by the time you are running 6x200 in 26’ with 200m dribblethrough the last two runs will be fairly lactic. In a long-to-short program in the second half of the winter (run-up towards the outdoor season) the distances shorten progessively, the intensity goes up and the recovery times lengthen. Whether you are on a long-to-short program, or short-to-long with the work I mentioned above being carried out essentially in parallel, depends on what you yourself have in mind.

Bear in mind that this is just my opinion. I personally have no problem with work in the 70% to 90% range provided speed work is not neglected in the same period, and provided that it is done in a specific period with specific goals. I think that while such work contributes little to either the development of speed, or of race-specific speed endurance, it is very valuable in building work-capacity especially in relatively inexperienced athletes, and can be a very useful tool in the GPP and SPP-I periods. However that’s my personal opinion, and there are others who disagree with this. Their input on this question may also be helpful to you in making your plans.

12

I have a question guys…

My body doesnt seem to like running 300m meters plus distance but repeat 200’s are not a problem.

Should I look at running the 200m distance and vary reps/sets/recoveries for progression?

I plan on running 100m and 200m outdoors. (I can only get on the track 2 days a week)

Right now I can run 4 x 200 in ~28.0 seconds with ~3 minutes recovery in flats. It is hard but not too bad.

Would a micros like the following work ok?

Thursday:
4 x 200 with 3 minutes rest between reps (target time of 28.0)
rest 5 minutes
3 x 100 with 90 seconds rest (say target time of 13.0)
cooldown: 8 x 100m strides on grass, 800 meter jog

Then for my “accel work” I was thinking about the following:
Monday:
3-4x50 meter accels
6 x 80m with 6 minutes rest (2 reps into the bend of the 200, 2 reps coming off the bend, 2 reps going down the straight)

Recovery days are typically strength end style circuits/core work or pool work. (pushups, situps, med ball, resisted towing, triples etc)

My 2 weight days are comprised of deads, hangcleans, oly squats, jump squats. (All weights are fairly light only about 70% of max for now for ~3 reps and low total volume)

What are your thoughts? Goals are mid 11’s 100m and 23.XX 200m. (I am 31 years old)

thanks guys,
Chris

13

What do you mean by “doesn’t like”. Do you have a hard time recovering from 300’s? Hard time holding form? What’s up?

14

I meant recovery takes too long between sessions, not within the workout itself.

For example the following workout kills me for 2.5 - 3 days:

4 x 300 with 5 minutes recovery (~45 seconds per rep)

But I can do the following workout and run again after a full days rest/recovery no problem:

3 x 200 (~28 seconds with 3 minutes recovery)
4 minutes rest
3 x 150 (with 2 minutes 30 seconds recovery)
bounding (alt leg 3 x 20 meter)

or

4 x 200 (3 minutes recovery)
3 x 100 (90 seconds recovery)
bounding (alt leg 3 x 50 meter)

I am not sure why this is. Maybe because I am fairly heavy for a sprinter? ~195 pounds

Thanks,
Chris

ps- I am only a 100, 200 runner. No 400’s.

Also the runs are timed in flats in COLD weather all bundled up. Easily in the 27 second range for 200’s in warm weather in spikes. Eventual goal is to do them all in ~25-26 seconds in spikes. That should put me easily back into the 22-23 second range for 200 again.

15

For example the following workout kills me for 2.5 - 3 days:

4 x 300 with 5 minutes recovery (~45 seconds per rep)

But I can do the following workout and run again after a full days rest/recovery no problem:

3 x 200 (~28 seconds with 3 minutes recovery)
4 minutes rest
3 x 150 (with 2 minutes 30 seconds recovery)
bounding (alt leg 3 x 20 meter)

You are working two your system differently on these two days. If you have enough gas in the tank for an easy jog that kept your heart rate up during your recovery periods you would probably feel better sooner. Or even at the end of practice if you added in 4-6 60meter repeats at about 70-80% effort with a jog back recovery you would also probably feel better sooner.

I do not have time to comment on your sechedule in detail at this time but it seems pretty good. Could you tell me your rationale for having such a high training load in wieghts at this time? Are you focusing on something specific? I normally do not perscribe as high a dose in a week unless I have a specific purpose for a short term training emphasis.

TDickson

16

I definitely have enough to walk around the track between reps but jogging is another matter LOL

At the end of the workout I usually do 6 x ~100m on grass and a lap jog. When I get home (after I eat) I also get on the bike for 10 minutes for a final “flushing” of the legs and lie down with my legs elevated and then static stretch for a while. Seems to work very well.

Cheers,
Chris