In sprint training we do excersises taxing to the CNS for what reason?
im guessing sprinting is demanding for the CNS because of the short duration high power type of work so in order to sprint more eficiently you should adapt your CNS to the high demands. Corect?
doesnt that assumes that the ideal muscle mass is already there? And if so, when do you know you are ready for cns work?
if i am griviously wrong please do explain, actually explain either way if you have the time:P
you need to train your brain to train your CNS to train/fire up your m. fibres
and you can start now! strength is supplementary, but won’t do it alone…
The Central Nervous System controls all muscle movement, and “learns” every motor activity we do. Charlie was among the first Western coaches to realize that it is the single most important component to speed training.
well i have figured as much, but the thing is your CNS must have some muscularity to work with, in ideal situations (say when electronicaly stimulated) a muscle can produce force that is proportional to its cross section.
for excample, two athletes, one 70kgr and another 80, the 70 one has a perfectly fine tuned and trained CNS and the other is just more bulky, but not CNS trained (not as much either way). Of the top of my head im guessing they would be able to run equaly fast having the CNS edge dulled by the extra muscle. Am i wrong?
Be that as it may, charlie had said that his athletes never needed body building methods because the muscle cross section was already in place. That makes complete sence because those people trained for 6-8 years. What happens to those ungifted former fat and untrained people that want to sprint (i.e me, cause i thing im the only one here:P) that dont have alot of muscle underneath?
moreover WHY does the cns needs to be taxed with weight BESIDES sprinting? I mean a sprinters wants his brain to adapt and make proper neural pathways to sprinting so what is the reason for heavy bench press for excample?
Buy the speed trap and CFTS ebooks from this site, it will answer your questions.
what you are saying -about the need of some hypertrophy during the early years of training- is correct; but don’t overdo it and you still need to always be close to speed and CNS stimulation to let your additional muscle mass know what you are trying to achieve
and the other point -about the need of CNS stimulation via weights- this is needed as well and in the particular case you are mentioning above, you need Bench Press stimulation of CNS vs. that of Squat, for example, before a race; weights are always supplementary to your running performance and the latter should guide possible adjustments in weights, not the other way round
hope it helps, but again what Chris P says is true!
Buy the speed trap and CFTS ebooks from this site, it will answer your questions.
i have both of them, but they focus on athlets with years of training on their backs. Plus they dont really explain the reason for bench press.
what i mean is why sould there be a aditional and kind of irelevant CNS stimulii if the peurpose of CNS adaptation is well sprinting, and that has a certain kind of mechanic that the brain needs to know.
the way i see it with my limited knowledge is like trying to teach someone to solve differential equasions and in ADITION of diferential equasion excersises you give him some topology. From an academic stand point that doesnt make any sence (actually it does, but its irelevant:P)
p.s. I dont judge, OBVIOUSLY charlie is right i just want to know the inner workings of his theory:)
what you are saying -about the need of some hypertrophy during the early years of training- is correct; but don’t overdo it and you still need to always be close to speed and CNS stimulation to let your additional muscle mass know what you are trying to achieve
shouldnt that come into place eventually through regular (lol) CNS work?
and the other point -about the need of CNS stimulation via weights- this is needed as well and in the particular case you are mentioning above, you need Bench Press stimulation of CNS vs. that of Squat, for example, before a race; weights are always supplementary to your running performance and the latter should guide possible adjustments in weights, not the other way round
what you are implying is that bench press for excample is used in order to “stir up” the cns and keep it on “edge” without fatiguing the muscles that actually do the sprinting? Like natural cafein or something?
Basically yes. I read somewhere, may have been a thread on this site, that bench ‘activates’ around 35% of all available motor units within the body. So in essence it acts as a natural caffeine if you like.
There is a difference between “activates” and “excites,” or “stimulates.”
“Activates” is like saying you drove 35mp/h in a car that can go 100mp/h. So 35% of its total capability.
“Excites” or “stimulates” would be more like saying you put supercharged fuel into the tank and then drove it, which has nothing to do with percentages.
The better your brain multitasks the faster it will go on single tasks like a computer! LOL :rolleyes:
In all seriousness though one reason for the bench press is that no other exercise can stimulate upper body strength and recruit MU’s like the bench press. It is a multijoint movement involving the wrists elbows and shoulders. The muscles involved are those that a sprinter uses. A second reason is that the Bench Press is a stimulus like caffeine or any other type of stimulus; in other words, you can only sprint so much before your body gets accustomed to it so this is why we need other stimuli to avoid plateus. Think of it this way when somebody trains in a bench press contest like an average joe they get average results like a 245lb bench press. Then somebody like me comes along who in addition to training average like decides to use creatine and compensatory acceleration (i.e. exploding at the bottom and then moving the bar as fast as possible upwards) all of sudden bench presses 405lbs. The results then become quite clear why one does strength training.
Now with that in mind I don’t work my biceps at all bc the muscle serves no function in sprinting; in other words, my biceps are deadweight and the less of them that I absolutely need (you need some developmental strength early in your career for other exercises like lat-pullups) the better! 
“Activates” is like saying you drove 35mp/h in a car that can go 100mp/h. So 35% of its total capability.
so why do you need bench in training? I figure before a race to stir up the CNS and have it ready but in training?
supervenomsuperman (dammit mate thats a long nick:P)
your answer cleared some things up, thanks
405 bench? shit that alot:P
yet again, when do i know that i should stop pure hypertrophy?
you can assume that i was until a year ago a complete and uter tab of lard, so i dont have the years of training as a teenager you people had, as a consequence its dificult to find proper training scenarios for me, and self education goes only that much
When before training? That day? 4 days out?
epote,
Since you are looking for guidance concerning your own training, the first question to ask is:
What is your ultimate goal?
Why are you training? The reason why this is important is your questions can’t accurately be answered without knowing what it is you want to accomplish.
Is it to be a sprinter in the sense that you want to eventually compete, our is sprinting one aspect of other training you do to look and feel good?
If you sprint occasionally because you enjoy the activity and are not looking to compete, I don’t see any problem with incorporating more hypertrophy work into your program, especially if you lack a background in training.
If you really want to/are competing, I know that all of these questions have been discussed on previous threads, I dont keep track of links but maybe someone has them to post? I also know that the CNS/Bench press issue was discussed directly in the forum review ebook (still holding out hope for a forum review 03 & 04)
When before training? That day? 4 days out?
ok you got me there:P it’s a lot more complicated that i innitialy thought:P
What is your ultimate goal?
if it happens that i my genes, take me to competition so be it, i wont say no:P ALTHOUGH, im too old (22) way to untrained and frankly geneticaly handicaped to have ANY kind of hope for even very local competition, though you never know:P
if i may give a short bio in order to make a more formal judgement yourself
i used to be fat, i mean realy fat, 120kgr (thats 260+lb) up until i was 19, then i started dieting (stupidly) and ultimately droped down to 87kgr (192lb). I then discovered gym:P started training and educating myself on the go at some point i got bored riding the god damn treadmil for 30minutes so i found about HIIT, well the running aspect of it whas excilerating, the burn, the air rushing well i guess you know why sprinting rules, so i gave it a try, and here i am now, doing normal sprint workouts.
my goals? dunno man, being fast, having a six pack all the usual staff:)
as you see the main problem (besides the academic-physiology interest) is that CFTS is all about athletes with proper training from young age. Im kind of an aberation so i find it hard to make a 1-1 map between what would serve ME best (advance me faster and trouble free) and what charlie proposes
p.s im now 81kg(179lb) 9-10% body fat and although i have made GREAT progress i am far from an athletes power ratio, hell first time i squated it was like 30kgr(66lb) now im squating 90kgr(198lb) and i thought that was cool till i found out about QUICKAZHELL and venom tha BENCH twice my squat and fell in a bottomless pit of depression, but what the hell:P
p.s 2 use the frieking metric system people, its so much easier, everything is a multiple of ten you dont need a ph.d in calculus to make basic arithmetics:P
Epote your age is the prime/best age for reflex respones as Cf mentions in CFTS I believe. Your strength according to CF will peak when your 30. So you have all the motivation in the world! I personally think your strength peaks later on if your an elite athlete and keep in mind that many sprinters don’t peak till there 33-35 years of age and then afterwards its downhill (which even then can still be debated).
If your training hard for the next 10-13 years you very well could be one of the best!
P.S. I am 27 and still looking forward to the Olympics! If I don’t make it I don’t lose anything bc I would then just become an ordinary joe. When I lift the wt I do and sprint the times I used to (4.21 40yard) I feel like a GOD and I don’t ever want that to stop! That and I still believe I will be the worlds fastest primate! Yes my ego or rather confidence I mean is huge just like my sprint times and best 1RM lifts bc that is what I train to be the best, just look at my signature below my post! Oh I just realized the adminstrator has disabled signatures so here it is anyways!
THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!
the fact that you have both of them will help you A LOT to get to know what everybody’s talking about here; you are already questioning things and i think this is good! 
if you haven’t got the 2002 Forum, get that as well!
not eventually, since the first day! why waiting for adaptations that you desperately need to come ONLY later on?
yes, like natural caffeine! send this one to Charlie, he will love it!
keep it up!
seriously, get the GPP dvd and take it from there! with the info you gave, that’s the best advice i can give you, i.e., you can make great progress!
and i know the place you live is GREAT for sprint training!
keep it up once more!
seriously, get the GPP dvd and take it from there! with the info you gave, that’s the best advice i can give you, i.e., you can make great progress!
yep, thats next on the “to buy” list, its a tad excpensive, but i reckon its worth the money.
and i know the place you live is GREAT for sprint training!
ahh…greece, a place of controvercy, we have relatively dry weather but no tracks.
indoor season? lol no such thing as indoor facilities here. The track i run into is 352m not 400:P thank god it has tartan down! Obviously no grass for tempos (already bought weelchair for when im fifty having no knees:p) no hills (but thats location) and offcourse no pool. Ill start digging
the fact that you have both of them will help you A LOT to get to know what everybody’s talking about here; you are already questioning things and i think this is good! if you haven’t got the 2002 Forum, get that as well!
charlie has a very fluent and understandable type of writing, kind of reminds me the dialoges of plato. I DO understand what people are saing here, i just try to project them to me. Things thend to sort out themselfs though.
btw, being a beginer rules because progretion os very fast, i mean first i tried 100m it was 14+ sec, pathetic, now its high 12 (12.9 or something) its excilarating
not eventually, since the first day! why waiting for adaptations that you desperately need to come ONLY later on?
you kind of lost me there
definitely worth it!
where do you live exactly? from what you are saying, you are not in Athens? i suppose there are a few places over there, but doesn’t work for you apparently… Try and find some grass, seriously!
also, you will need hills according to the DVD!
no big worries about pool…
Charlie has knowledge and with knowledge comes simplicity in way of talking and writing, i suppose;
what i meant was that you need CNS adaptation -if you can call it this way- definitely, so why wait for this to happen later on and not from the start along with the adaptations of all other elements…
where do you live exactly? from what you are saying, you are not in Athens?
is there a point telling you excactly? i DO live in athens thats the problem, the bigest patch of grass here is 3x3 and used by dogs. Let alone grassy hills! but ill work around it perhaps they will put some grass on the soccer field in the near future. Perhaps i should go to a track and field club, i dunno, have a proper coatch teach me how to do power cleans:P cause now in my regular damb ass gym i cant do them