The greatest coach is....

[arnie365]

@james_colbert

are u serious. what are u going to go to all the local elementry schools do some testing train someone for 10 years and then report back… arnie im not arguing that white athletes cant be great, im black but i still believe white athletes can go sub 10. my problem is your assertion that intermuscular coordination is genetically based.

well! as they say the proof is in the…speed in this case.

[martn76]

@arnie365

y know what? ur all right, white r genetically inferior due 2 muscle fibers and all the rest of it. the white man will always b eating dust from the black sprinters spikes because when the mind has a limiter it will never surpass it. so enjoy the final from the stands guys because that’s the closest u’ll come 2 being in that race.

borzov would have done this and that bt he did’nt and never will, no matter who says what.

i still stand by what i said first, the greatest/best coach is he who can produce the goods and only time will tell. until then everyone can go on guessing, being quallified, formulating (scientifically disproved) theories and wondering why the results don’t come.

after all everyone is an expert bt very very few actually can produce the goods.

so good luck guys

You have entered that zone…I ve seen it before, the one where the overwhelming arguement presented by the forum forces someone on the back foot.

[martn76]

@arnie365

firstly u can’t compare borzov 2 mennea, altitude or not( and by the way i know that altitude affects the times)because they r simply not on the same level. pietro mennea was the fastest man alive 4 almost 17 yrs (on average top speed, of corse)
white or black. to give u an idea of what he achieved, the great michael johnson ran the 200 at almost exactly the same altitude an exactly the same following wind 1.8 m/s, his time 19.71s his best time run out side the special atlanta track which does not exist anymore. a 19.32 man with the same conditions almost to the T, only bettered mennea’s time by .01s. think about that one!

if altitude makes SUCH a big difference y don’t they go 2 the track and do the business, the tracks r avalible, tim tried bt failed he only ran 10.04.

i think it’s best 2 speak about what ppl did because what they could have done count 4 nothing!!!

i enjoyed ur piece, it was intressting bt it does’nt change anything, i’m still sticking 2 my gunns.because i have my evidence 2 prove what i say. at the end the results will speak louder than words

So, have you figured out what Minnea was doing to run so fast? What part of his training targetted intra-muscular co-ordination? Was it the 5x5x60m sprints done in 6.5-6.7 secs or the speed endurance runs over 150m? Maybe it was the jump squats, or the alternate and speed bounds?

[Nikoluski]

@arnie365

… (and by the way i know that altitude affects the times) …

… if altitude makes SUCH a big difference y don’t they go 2 the track and do the business, the tracks r avalible, tim tried bt failed he only ran 10.04 …

I am a bit confused with the above…

[Charlie_Francis]

@arnie365

that’s agreat idea! DO YOU ACCEPT THE CHALLENGE mr FRANSIC

So the point is to get free coaching?? Well, Mr Fransic might- but I’ll pass!!

[d_nasty]

@arnie365

firstly u can’t compare borzov 2 mennea, altitude or not( and by the way i know that altitude affects the times)because they r simply not on the same level. pietro mennea was the fastest man alive 4 almost 17 yrs (on average top speed, of corse)
white or black. to give u an idea of what he achieved, the great michael johnson ran the 200 at almost exactly the same altitude an exactly the same following wind 1.8 m/s, his time 19.71s his best time run out side the special atlanta track which does not exist anymore. a 19.32 man with the same conditions almost to the T, only bettered mennea’s time by .01s. think about that one!

if altitude makes SUCH a big difference y don’t they go 2 the track and do the business, the tracks r avalible, tim tried bt failed he only ran 10.04.

i think it’s best 2 speak about what ppl did because what they could have done count 4 nothing!!!

i enjoyed ur piece, it was intressting bt it does’nt change anything, i’m still sticking 2 my gunns.because i have my evidence 2 prove what i say. at the end the results will speak louder than words

you forget that mennia was in top shape in 1979(presumably). he only broke 20 two other times. once in the heats in mexico city and then once in 1980.

Johnson in 2000… he was not in top shape for any race, presumably, because of the impending olympics. it was freaking middle of march when he ran that time. it was an accident and occured in the semifinal. similar to marsh’s 19.73 in the heat with basicly still wind(-.2) in barcalona.

clearly johnson’s run is superior circumstances considered as is marsh’s 19.73 easing up. heck altitude adjusted and considering the rounds they had to run. lewis in 1983 at 19.75 and deloach in 88 in seuol also at 19.75 are better.

also keep in mind what john carlos and tommie smith could of done had they not be blacklisted.

point being menna’s world record held up for longer than it should have and it was under almost perfect conditions.

patrick johnson and frankie fredericks broke 10. half should count shouldn’t it?

everyone from this guy

to this guy

have broken 10

why not this guy?:

or yepishin

oh wait they are fucked cause they have lower motor intellegence. poor guys.

[d_nasty]

@arnie365

that’s agreat idea! DO YOU ACCEPT THE CHALLENGE mr FRANSIC

francis???

[rapsmvp]

@arnie365

well! as they say the proof is in the…speed in this case.

No no you got it all wrong. Blacks run faster because on average their hands are larger. The proof in this case is the speed.

^^ think about what you’ve just said.

[martn76]

@rapsmvp

No no you got it all wrong. Blacks run faster because on average their hands are larger. The proof in this case is the speed.

^^ think about what you’ve just said.

LOL, I also heard that its that extra muscle that we have, instead of 4 muscles we have FIVE, YES FIVE! Hence the new name… pentaceps. So…they gonna have a WHOLE NEW revision of Gray’s Anatomy.

[james_colbert]

@martn76

LOL, I also heard that its that extra muscle that we have, instead of 4 muscles we have FIVE, YES FIVE! Hence the new name… pentaceps. So…they gonna have a WHOLE NEW revision of Gray’s Anatomy.

halarious… Gray’s Anatomy black people edition

[arnie365]

@d_nasty

francis???

apologies, it was about 1 in the morning when i typed it.

[arnie365]

@Nikoluski

I am a bit confused with the above…

what i’m saying is ppl should stop whining about altitude aided times and go run at altitude them selves so that they 2 can run faster, 2 put things in prospective.

[arnie365]

@Charlie_Francis

So the point is to get free coaching?? Well, Mr Fransic might- but I’ll pass!!

who said any thing about free coaching? u’ed make a fortune, just think about it, the TIGER WOODS of track and field.

i’ll even suggest a good catch, morne nagel, he’s a very fast starter and 4 me has the best chance of doing it. by the way, he has excellent speed endurance as well, 200m south african record! try c if u can reel him in, i belive his current coach is his problem with regards 2 form.

[arnie365]

@martn76

You have entered that zone…I ve seen it before, the one where the overwhelming arguement presented by the forum forces someone on the back foot.

who is backfooting ? as i said, talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words.

[arnie365]

@d_nasty

you forget that mennia was in top shape in 1979(presumably). he only broke 20 two other times. once in the heats in mexico city and then once in 1980.

Johnson in 2000… he was not in top shape for any race, presumably, because of the impending olympics. it was freaking middle of march when he ran that time. it was an accident and occured in the semifinal. similar to marsh’s 19.73 in the heat with basicly still wind(-.2) in barcalona.

clearly johnson’s run is superior circumstances considered as is marsh’s 19.73 easing up. heck altitude adjusted and considering the rounds they had to run. lewis in 1983 at 19.75 and deloach in 88 in seuol also at 19.75 are better.

also keep in mind what john carlos and tommie smith could of done had they not be blacklisted.

point being menna’s world record held up for longer than it should have and it was under almost perfect conditions.

patrick johnson and frankie fredericks broke 10. half should count shouldn’t it?

everyone from this guy

to this guy

have broken 10

why not this guy?:

or yepishin

oh wait they are fucked cause they have lower motor intellegence. poor guys.

semi-final of what? i saw the race and he was going all out. it was in the south african engen serie’s in pietersberg, they did’nt need semi-finals.

if he was’nt in shape it would not have been his third fastest time ever! he ran on many tracks in sa on many occations, which were also at altitude, namely pretoria(the same track where shawn crawford ran 19’85, which is incedently slower that his pb), roodepoort and these tracks r very high altitude bt he did not even come close 2 his 19.71 in pietersburg. o and by the why in 2002 tim ran in pretoria at altitude and clocked 9,94 but ran much faster at sea level in paris. and yes he was in good shape because he clocked 6.48 indoors a few weeks earlier.

so ur explination holds no water!!!

as far as fredricks and p johnson r concerned, i think atletiek covered that earlier, they consider them selves a “new race” not white or black or aboriginally.

[arnie365]

@rapsmvp

No no you got it all wrong. Blacks run faster because on average their hands are larger. The proof in this case is the speed.

^^ think about what you’ve just said.

in basic terms i was saying that the results will speak 4 them selves.

[arnie365]

@Jstu3565

First off I would again like to reiterate that this whole thread is pointless and in no way is going to help us run faster or improve in any way, shape, or form. Yes, there is slight genetic tendencies that seem to favor speed, but again, who cares. Find ways to improve on what you/your athletes have and go from there. Otherwise it is too easy to sink into the ‘whoa is me, I/my athletes have no talent. Why was I so unlucky’ scenario as an excuse instead of looking more diligently for ways to improve.

Now to address the fast twitch comment, one thing we need to keep in mind is throwers, linemen, etc. are all going to have a large amount of fast twitch fibers. This is likely for a combination of reasons. First, there is no special end. in throwing events, so all their work is almost exclusively explosive(high force/high rate in very short bursts, even compared to a sprinter).

Secondly, throwers/lineman are all large and very muscular people. Since we know that hypertrophy is much more likely to occur in type II’s, and also assuming that they are training correctly(again heavy weights and/or light weights at the maximum possible velocity) then we can probably assume that the large amounts of muscle mass acquired through their training is largely fast twitch, so this can skew the ratio favorably in terms of %'s of fast vs. slow.

Also keep in mind that they do not have to worry as much about body wieght restrictions. Not that it is not important as even throwers have a very high 1rm in comparison to their body weight, which is needed for the acceleration and explosiveness, but it is less of a concern than it might be for a sprinter. This is, of course the reason that throwers are quite large. As such, they can eat without worrying too much about getting ‘too big’. And a hypocaloric or even a maintenance number of calories can also cause favorable effects in terms of fast vs. slow. The surplus of food keeps testosterone as well as thyroid hormones high, among others. These two hormones both influence the amount of fast vs. slow ratios as well. Believe it or not, all those fat lazy slobs you see stuffing themselves at the buffett line actually have an high ratio in terms of fast vs. slow. Hypocaloric intake and little to no work to avoid fast to slow conversion.

So there you have it. If you want to develop a much higher type II vs. Type I than what you currently have, then either work out and eat like a thrower or become a fat, lazy slob.

if ur theory was correct don’t u think that ALL the shot and disc throwers would have this ft advantage, instead of just the EXTREME cases. on AVERAGE the ft ratio was the same.

u don’t get it do u. the genetic issue is a severe hand cap, what ur saying is like put a ferrari road car against a formula 1, u’ll never have a chance, ever.

what i’m saying is f1 against f1 bt with faulty wiring, my senario can b fixed by the mechanic bt urs can’t.

bt good luck trying.

[arnie365]

@martn76

LOL, I also heard that its that extra muscle that we have, instead of 4 muscles we have FIVE, YES FIVE! Hence the new name… pentaceps. So…they gonna have a WHOLE NEW revision of Gray’s Anatomy.

there r actually 19 muscles on ur upper leg of which 11 can b seen from the front. motor intelligence is the use of all these and others in the lower leg in a co-ordinated sequential and effiecient way, 2 produce the maximum amount of force.

so keep counting ur almost there

[eroszag]

arnie…do youthink that peaking and tapering doesn’t exist???
it means nothing to run a slow time not in the main focus race of the season…atlanta track was fast, but all the other guys , example 100m, had similar results in their careers…Mennea…that day was perfect, 220m, perfect humidity, 1,9m/s wind…he did 10"01 on 100 (I think was never sub 10"15 at sea level), and on the 200, 7 out of 8 competitors PB, between 1 and 7(!) tenths on theuir previous one.
It was his plan and Vittori’s to break the wr, all the year was focused on this, they had luck…
If you do not believe that wind and altitude has an effect n track performances, go to read all the studies, PJ can give links…
It’s a matter of physics, nothing more.
If you do not believe in gravity, or believe in flat earth…I cannot help

[Nikoluski]

@arnie365

… i’ll even suggest a good catch, morne nagel, he’s a very fast starter and 4 me has the best chance of doing it. by the way, he has excellent speed endurance as well, 200m south african record! try c if u can reel him in, i belive his current coach is his problem with regards 2 form.

Why don’t you try and “reel him in”? He sounds an easy enough case. We’ll keep an eye on the results…