do u want to have a discussion or just insult me. i dont mind talking about this stuff and trying to explain my views but your being a complete ass. me and davan had a long chat via AIM earlier today that is why i didnt post there. as for effeiciency its not an insult to say that your not the most effeicient so dont take it as such. ive seen people greatly improve in all facites of athletics simply by learning to use their physiology to its greatest degree.
as for borzov where u just making stuff up to back up your point? the answer doesnt matter.
i did specultate on your progrssion to depth jumps and landings. im guessing you made sure you squat was at a cetrain level or that you had did this and that previous work. if im wrong tell me what your progression was. the most important thing before starting that type of training is being able to land in the right postion . the load can be changed very easily. like i said it can be modified so that a 90 year old lady can use the same concepts so level of strength is not really a concern only being able to contract the proper msucles at the proper time. so yea its not moot please explain your postion.
determining height is easily done you can use a force plate but u can also use a video camera the height at which a person can no longer stop in the proper postion within 3 frames is considered too high.
[QUOTE=Davan]What is the proper position for these particular drops?
EDIT: James didn’t seek me out, I actually IM’d him and asked him some questions, to clear up any misunderstanding.[/QUOTE
when i talk about these drops they can be used for any body part, delts chest, ect ect. so its specific to what you want to train. you can do altitude drops and land low to train the hamstrings and hip extension or high to train the quads ect. or you can land in a lunge or even a push up. the basic concept is falling and catching yourself efficiently absorbign the force that the fall generated. higher the fall greater the force. velocity is key.
Perhaps it would be a good thing to make a new thread instead of having the same debate in every other thread – “strength concept as a neural expression” (no23), or something?
There are two positions. If you land with straight legs then the order of magnitude is something like 6x bodyweight for a 1.2-1.6m drop. With bent knees as if you are landing after a ski jump in a half squat position, it’s 3-4x bodyweight.
Find yourselves a vibration platform cause it does exactly what drop jumps do…the difference is the effect is that 2-3 sessions a week are equivalent to doing something like 100x 60-80cm drop jumps everyday for a year.
When and why for each? Seems like a squat landing would recruit the hams more, but straight leg is more like what happens in sprinting. Thoughts/opinions?
Martn–how much have you seen tolerable in novice/intermediate (11.0 male) athletes? What kind of heights and when? Are you rebounding or just landing?
it doesnt do the exact same thing. its a very useful tool but it in no way recruits the motor unit pool in the same fashion. doesnt teach the body to absorb force. and doesnt teach the bodies system how to deal with high impact forces as in what occurs during a sprint or soccer match.
lol also, I’d love to get a vibration platform (and high res. vid camera and FAT and reactime systems, and daily massage, etc.), but it isn’t realistic on a student budget.
PR u kidding ull smash the world record by 10 seconds o wait that would be negative time … yea u would go so fast u would go back in time and slap you opponents mamas.
The vibration platform decreases the time needed to reach a training state specific to your body. In other words if it took 2 years to reach a certain level with lets say 1000 depth jumps then the it may take only 2 months to reach the same level with the vibration platform.
first i very much doubt that and would like to see where your getting this. second a depth jump is compley different than the vibration. i think your thinking because it elicits the stretch reflex at a high frequecny that each hert is equal to a plyometric action… uh uh. sorry buddy the use of vibration is a powerful tool but if you think it can replace physical loading, well never mind. lol 2 months to replace 2 years huh.
Adaptive response of human skeletal muscle to simulated hypergravity conditions (1. 1
g), applied for three weeks, caused a drastic enhancement of the neuromuscular
functions of the leg extensor muscles shifting the F-V relationship to the right
(Bosco, 1985). In the present experiment, even if the total length of the VT
application period was only 10 minutes, the perturbation of the gravitational field was
rather consistent (2.7 g). An equivalent length and intensity of training stimulus can
be reached only by performing 150 times leg press or half squat exercises with extra
loads of 3 body mass twice a week for 5 weeks (Bosco,l992).
Source:
“ADAPTIVE RESPONSES OF HUMAN SKELETAL
MUSCLE TO VIBRATION EXPOSURE”. C. Bosco 1y2y3, R. Colli 5, E. Introini, M. Cardinale 4, M. Iacovelli’ , J.
Tihanyi 3, S.P. von Duvillard 7, A. Viru
uromuscular functions of the leg extensor muscles (Bosco. 1985).
The regular use of centrifugal force (2 g) for 3 months has initiated conversion of muscle fibre type (Martin and Romond, 1975). In the experiments conducted, the total length of the WBV application period was not very long (from 7 minutes to 100 minutes), but the disturbance to the gravitational field was quite consistent (5.4 g). An equivalent length and intensity of training stimulus (100 minutes) can only be reached by performing 200 drop jumps from 60 cm, twice a week for 12 months. In fact, the time spent for each drop jump is less than 200 ms, and the acceleration developed can barely reach 3.0 g (Bosco. 1992). This means stimulating the muscles for 2 min per week for a total amount in one year of 108 minutes. In a few words, vibrations can stimulate the biological system of athletes in the same way as strength training or explosive training and this stimulation can be applied in a much shorter period of time as compared to the time needed to perform traditional training sessions. It opens a new window in sports science and gives coaches and scientists new possibilities for studying and enhancing human performance.
Source:
New trends in training science:
“The use of vibrations for enhancing performance”
by Carmelo Bosco, Marco Cardinale, Olga Tsarpela and Elio Locatelli
James… define the type of neural and muscle contraction carried out at the point of contact for a drop jump for absorption. Define the type of neural and muscle contraction for a whole body vibration work out what do you find?
You care to discuss this with A. Viru, M. Cardinale (Bosco passed away sometime ago)?
Don’t shoot the messanger.
These researchers are peer reviewed Colbert you’re just a student…so if you want to challenge their research and others who have validated their findings, then go ahead…
Have you ever done a vibration platform session?
Have you ever done drop jumps properly?
Plyometrics AKA depth jumps drop jumps are a branch of reflexive isometrics defined as Reflexive Explosive Isometrics. Vibration training is a branch of Reflexive Isometrics defined as Oscillatory Isometrics.
I’m beginning to find you petulent; like some of the children I teach. Don’t get me wrong I am all for your enthusiasm but don’t dismiss what you don’t fully understand or make statements like depth jumps are completely different from whole body vibrations. Yes because of the visual differences but to the body they are ONE AND THE SAME.
I’ve heard one of Bosco’s platforms is tested in space! I think I tested one of the first machines many years ago, and I still have access to one whenever I wish. However, I haven’t really done any systematic work/programming on it.
Could you give some examples of what you do (and when): Machine settings + incorporation into what kind of training/period (GPP – SPP – CP)?
first off dont assume that you know me or my knowledge base, i am a student of this field and always will be when you stop being a student you start being a fool. u should also know i have read all of boscos studies pretaining to vibration. so i know what your refering to, and i know that though it does elicit the stretch reflex proprtional the the vibrational hertz it does not produce the same adaptation as a depth jump simple because you have to take into consideration the adapation of passive tissues which expereience stress from high impact forces. im not confused by what i am seeing but i do think you are confused about what is occursing. the effect of any means is greater than any one factor. if you dont kno that you need to go back to square one. i could give a flying fuck what your tired of. you think ur telling me something i dont know but guess what … your not. could you, sure i will recognize when you present something of intrest. does a vibrational platform cause adaptive stress in conective tissue in the same manner as a depth jump? i dont think so.
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I know I am asking a lot of you here… lol thanks.