Some authors feel that , in some cicumstances and for a limited time, strength training twice a day could be useful.For example CP states that it is the easiest way to gain strength for an advanced athlete.He advises to train the same muscles or similar movements, varying the load and the execution in the 2 workouts (for example, .am. workouts heavier, p.m. with more reps, or with more eccentric emphasis)
This is not necessarily a question about sprinting, but more geared towards strength development in some phases of the year for athletes needing it (throwers, linemen…)
What are your thoughts and or experiences?
unfortunately…no replies…I should start to find a guinea pig and then tell ou all about the results…
First of all Im not sure how many people have the time to train twice a day unless you are a paid professional athlete in addition to extra regeneration avail and supplements. And If in fact you are training twice a day how many days out of the training week is this going on?
I’ve only seen strength training 2times a day in elite weightlifters…Obviously, lifting weights IS their sport, not the GPP that the rest of the world does for other sports…
We were lucky enough to have 2 “top 20” in the world olympic lifters live and train with us a few summers back. It was wild seeing the workload they could handle.
As for training, they did double sessions on M,W,F, with singles on T,Th and Sat.
This was their “offseason”! They then moved to anywhere from 10-13 workouts a week. Awesome to watch.
I’m aware of wl double or triple sessions…I was more interested in a "shock "mesocycle in off season for gaining more strenght…I found mostly CP material…training 2 a day for 2 weeks and once a day one week, using for example a 3 or 4 times a a week schedule…varying the workload and tempo or eccentric concentric emphasis…short sessions of 40 minutes or less should be used ( btw, many athletes can find 40 minutes at lunch and 40 more late afternoon 3 times a week just for a month or sligthly more…).
other authors, like angel spassov suggested 2 a days, or at least training sessions separated by 30 minutes minimum…mainly for hormonal reasons…(4 hours best)
I came across 2 articles by spassovon organizing training, they were printed in NSCA journal in the 80’s I think…they have some interesting concepts like the statement that, “From works in physiology we know that strength is best trained if women athletes consume their training load in five sessions a day. Consequently, the maximum number of trainings per week can be 35!”
At the end of the day it all adds up…
For example CP states that it is the easiest way to gain strength for an advanced athlete.He advises to train the same muscles or similar movements, varying the load and the execution in the 2 workouts (for example, .am. workouts heavier, p.m. with more reps, or with more eccentric emphasis) - eroszag
Does he happen to mention why this is the case? Probably not.
Unfotunately Charles Poliquin has attained a status where he can say almost anything and expect blind acceptance.
Only someone who is terribly confused on the fundamentals of exercise science would even consider this quote.
Apply a subjects basic principles to a satement and if a contradiction appears, then there is a falsehood. Do not waste your time ‘experimenting’ with whatever new concept comes out regardless of it’s author until you have given it critical thought.
Lifting twice a day, lifting weights on consecutive days will get some results (though slow ones I might add) at his institute with the help of blood panelists, world class sports nutritionists and soft tissue specialists (I account these as the reason he experiences any progress at all.) But even for someone with access to the latest recovery/regeneration techniques this will lead to overtraining.
If one workout isn’t enough to stimulate strength increases then how can two ?
Zero plus Zero equals Zero !!!
SeanJos
I don’t think you should comment Cp works like this…the training modalities you refer( hit) are not the only one feasible…training on consecutive days or even2 timesa day has its values, like many things…the physiological adaptations are mainly neurological…toward strength, not building mass…training to failure go home and wait there 7 days-…also, having good regeneration therapies and nutritional status is something good…
Training twice a day can work but the athlete mus pay very close attention to nutrition and rest.
Senjos is very right, CP does have lots of help at his center “Expert and Nutritional” in many forms.
I have used the twice a day method but with my athletes, Throwers and Weightlifters. I have found that this is best used with 3 week cycles and training only once a day for the first week and not the last. This, I have found, gives the athlete the chance to begin to adapt to the new stimulus before I increase the intensity.
I have also used two the 45 minute rule wich works with athletes who have less recovery ability, and 40 minutes in the morning and 90 minutes in the evenings. This is for the athletes with better recovery ability and the weightlifters.
Working heavy in the morning and volume in the evening leads to more hypertrophy. But this method complies with the principle of working the higher threshold motor units first. This is sound logic.
CP has built his reputation working with hard hitting NHL and NFL players, and most of them were defence, NHL, and Lineman,NFL. Hypertrophy can only benifit these athletes, with the exception of the NHL where hypertrophy can be benifical only to a point.
I hope this helps
Any jackass can tear down a house. It takes a great man to build one.
It’s hard for me to understand criticisms of this specific training methodology when it’s obvious certain individuals can’t possibly have had any experience with it.
Training twice/day has it’s benefits. But it has to be population-specific. If you look at CP’s actual program design, you will see that the volume is very low (only about 60-minutes of total training time for BOTH sessions), so splitting this up into 2 sessions is not that unreasonable. The folks at Athletes Performance have used this split successfully as well. There are some very important factors that these professionals have in common: comprehensive evaluation, extensive planning, and great coaching. The people at Athletes Performance make program design an art form while using very different methodology than CP.
This is a results business and if CP is able to achieve the results he needs for the PROFESSIONAL AND ELITE ATHLETES that he trains, then who cares if people choose to criticize the methodology.
When everyone went to school, didn’t every school have a rich kid driving some fancy car? If your daddy gave you a ferrari, would you drive it? So don’t hate the rich kid for having the ferrari (or hate CP for using the best doctors/nutritionists/therapists)! If a sprinter has access to training with Charlie, will we criticize his results? Then you can’t criticize the coach for having access to the best of what’s available.
I’ve done work with some athletes where they train twice or three times/day with emphasis on different training abilities. It is the coaches responsibility to manage all training variables to allow the athlete the best opportunity for success. I’ve organized my athletes schedule on the following split.
S-Off
Mon-Morning - Speed-Strength/
Afternoon - [5-Hours Later]-Max Strength
Tues-Morning - Off/
Afternoon - Active Recovery/Low-Intensity Tempo
Wed- Skill Integration [Technical Sport Work]/
Afternoon - [5-Hours Later]-Strength-Endurance
Evening - *Massage Appointment
Thurs-Morning - Active Recovery/Low-Intensity Tempo/
Afternoon - Off
Fri-Morning - Speed-Strength/
Afternoon - [5-Hours Later]-Max Strength
Sat-Morning - Active Recovery/Low-Intensity Tempo/
Afternoon - *Massage Appointment/Off
Note:
We’ll rotate this schedule to emphasize more sport work so the next week will be M/F-Skill Integration [Technical Sport Work] and W-Speed-Strength/MaxStrength. After 3-weeks we’ll shift to a Speed-Strength/Strength-Speed split [obviously there’s always emphasis on acceleration and lift speed, the loading is different on a strength-speed block though; we’ll use 60-80% depending on the athlete and since I work a lot with volleyball players (especially females) I tend to stick with the higher end of the rep bracket and the lower end on the intensity]. As a requirement for participation, I have these athletes meet with a massage therapist at least once/week. In my experience, this increases confidence and it’s always good to have planned relaxation time. We’ll also change to once/day training after we finish 6-weeks on this cycle and incorporate more volleyball work and more conditioning (intensive tempo) as we get closer to the season. My definition for tempo is a little different than the standard model, but it’s still the same at it’s root. The athletes I train on this schedule (I’ve only been able to use this kind’ve split twice, so it still needs some refinement) have very specific nutrition plans that includes the use of Biotest Surge/Biotest Metabolic Drive (we use 1 scoop of surge and 1 scoop of Metabolic Drive [strawberry] because flavor becomes an issue [the formulation doesn’t matter if it ends up as vomit on the floor; with 1 scoop of each it just tastes like a banana-strawberry mix) and either Biotest Power Drive or SNAC Vitalyze. Additionally, at the facility I work at I have access to some excellent volleyball coaches and an incredible volleyball director (from Poland) who understand what real development is. So the volleyball training they do actually helps my training program and vice-versa.
I’m also actually in the planning phase of a high-performance training camp that I’ll be offering some of my higher-level athletes where they’ll basically eat, sleep, and train for 6-weeks and I’m excited to see what we’ll be able to accomplish.
For more insight into this training, you can also see john berardi’s “G-Flux and the Olympic Athlete” article at t-nation. There is also going to be a john berardi/charles poliquin seminar in PPC-Chicago sometime in May discussing this very topic.
There is a difference between training twice a day with this type of protocol (which I like) - which contains much variation thereby preventing dangerous overload of any particular muscle group. And training twice a day strength/weights only, which is stressing the same types of muscles more frequently. For example triathletes can put in huge volumes of training but the variety of 3 disciplines + weights/core etc prevents overload of any area.
I can see that full time weightlifters or body builders could train twice a day for strength. I guess that is analogous to Paula Radcliffe running twice a day.
But for mere mortals twice a day training is probably best carried out with variety.
At the moment my athletes that will turn full time next year are training twice a day for 2 weeks to try out a few things. We are doing weight training 2x a day mon/wed/fri and once a day tue/thurs/sat. Using a upper body lower body split and after 10 days they are doing pretty well. All lifting numbers are up and thier track times arn’t suffering. However, we are using very low numbers of lifts (about 8 sets maximum). I think for GPP this could be useful and perhaps during a long offseason (perhaps 2 weeks high 2 weeks low) but for the whole year I doubt they could keep it up.