SPP help

CF Product Discussions Vancouver Series I
1

First of all I’m a sophomore in college, a hockey player and a wannabe sprinter :D. I play club hockey at school and its not all that competitive and while I am training to both improve in hockey and sprinting I think my main training focus is for sprinting. That said I never ran track before indoor this year (one meet, 8.01 FAT in the 60m) and I’ve always been a “slow white boy”. I finished my hockey season at the end of February and did a 6 week GPP (losely based on the GPP download). I now have 11 weeks of SPP before I start a S+C internship over the summer where I will be working out with other interns and players. The program is similar to MBoyle’s stuff, for those who are familiar. It doesn’t include much speed or accel work from what I gather so I am going to kind of use it as a GPP2 (I think there is some significant weights volume and conditioning) and then do 5ish weeks of a “SPP2” before hockey starts in the fall.

So I just got the Vanc '04 download and I watched it and I’ve been studying the graphs etc. and trying to see how I can incorporate the concepts and trends into my training as well as seeing where I’ve been “right” and “wrong” in my training recently. I think I have been too afraid of volume recently, especially following my GPP period where ~750m/week of accel work (albeit on turf not the track) 3/wk was fine as well as tempo/general conditioning and weights 3/wk. Over the last few weeks the intensity of speed work and weights has gone up but I’ve been afraid of doing more than ~300-400m accel/wk and I think I’ve put too much focus on weights rather than making speed the primary focus. Also I’ve gone to two days/wk and I am getting lingering soreness whereas with 3/wk during GPP, I guess the frequency was high enough that I got very little soreness. Here is what I wrote up for the remainder of my SPP

[b]WEEK1(300m)-
Mon(120m):
3x4x10m
FSQ 4x4 (+5lbs/wk)
SL RDL 2x5
Push up 2x5
Row 2x5

Fri(180m):
1x3x10m
1x5x30m
FSQ 4x4
SL RDL 2x5
Push up 2x5
Row 2x5

WEEK2(380m)-
Mon(120m):
3x4x10m
FSQ 4x4 (+5lbs/wk)
SL RDL 2x5
Push up 2x5
Row 2x5

Fri(260m):
1x2x10m
2x4x30m
FSQ 4x4
SL RDL 2x5
Push up 2x5
Row 2x5

WEEK3 (400m)-
Mon(120m):
3x4x10m
FSQ 4x4 (+5lbs/wk)
SL RDL 2x5
Push up 2x5
Row 2x5[/b]

Fri(280m):
1x4x10m
2x4x30m
FSQ 4x4
SL RDL 2x5
Push up 2x5
Row 2x5

WEEK4 UNLOAD WEIGHTS, SPRINTS @97%(480m)-
Mon(200m):
2x5x20m
FSQ 2x3
SL RDL 2x4
Push up 1x4
Row 1x4

Wed(100m):
2x5x10m
FSQ 3x4
SL RDL 2x4
Push up 2x4
Row 2x4

Fri(180m):
2x3x30m
FSQ 2x3
SL RDL 2x4
Push up 1x4
Row 1x4

WEEK5(590m)
Mon(220m):
1x3x20m
1x4x40m
FSQ 2x4
SL RDL 2x5
Push up 1x5
Row 1x5

Wed(150m):
2x5x15m
FSQ 4x4 (+5lbs/wk)
SL RDL 2x5
Push up 2x5
Row 2x5

Fri(220m):
1x3x20m
1x4x40m
FSQ 2x4
SL RDL 2x5
Push up 1x5
Row 1x5

WEEK6(650m)-
Mon(220m):
1x3x20m
1x4x40m
FSQ 2x4
SL RDL 2x5
Push up 1x5
Row 1x5

Wed(170m):
1x5x10m
2x4x15m
FSQ 4x4 (+5lbs/wk)
SL RDL 2x5
Push up 2x5
Row 2x5

Fri(260m):
1x3x20m
1x6x40m
FSQ 2x4
SL RDL 2x5
Push up 1x5
Row 1x5

WEEK7(700m)-
Mon(260m):
1x3x20m
1x5x40m
FSQ 2x4
SL RDL 2x5
Push up 1x5
Row 1x5

Wed(180m):
3x4x15m
FSQ 4x4 (+5lbs/wk)
SL RDL 2x5
Push up 2x5
Row 2x5

Fri(260m):
1x3x20m
1x6x40m
FSQ 2x4
SL RDL 2x5
Push up 1x5
Row 1x5

WEEK8-
unload speed (~600m), move to maintenance weights (snatch grip dead and bench press or
weighted push ups 3x2 @80% MWF)

WEEK9(760m)-
M(280m): 1x4x20m
1x4x50m
W(160m): 2x4x20m
F(320m):
1x4x20m
1x4xFEF

WEEK10(780m)-
M(280m):
1x4x20m
1x4x50m
W(160m):
2x4x20m
F(340m):
1x3x20m
1x3xFEF
1x2xflying 20

WEEK11-
M(210m):
1x3x20m
1x3x50m
W(100m):
1x4x10m
1x3x20m
Bench Press
F:
1x3x20m
time trial 60m

I should note that I am planning on running a few indoor meets next winter in Jan/Feb which is in the middle or near the end of a 6wk break in my hockey season. So for now I am just trying to get as fast as possible without any real goal of tapering for a race or anything because I have hockey season first. Also, as you can see I’d like to do a time trial 60m that last week before the internship to see how my 60m has improved since the 8.01 FAT in a meet a couple months ago (comparison won’t be 100% accurate but close enough). One last thing- the bolded part of the list is the workouts I’ve already done in SPP and my most recent front squat was 220 4x4 and I’m 6’ 185… just for reference.

Sorry for the length. Its kinda long but let me know if there is any info I left out. Thanks in advance.

2

needs work, ur trying to combine to many diff things.

3

Tam,

Could you please open it up a bit and get into some details? What do you think needs work?

Rupert
CharlieFrancis.com

4

my bad, im not sure if hes following cf spp programs or what, from looking at his program i dont think he is. if you really want results i would start with the 7 weeks gpp program then move to the 12 week spp program, reduce the volume in half each session and keep tempo vol btw 600-1500m. if you have more questions ask.

5

Nice post, points awarded.

Good stuff.

Rupert
CharlieFrancis.com

6

Thanks for the replies. I have been out of town for the last week so sorry I didn’t see this earlier.

Not sure why you said I am trying to mix too many things. I am not exactly following the CF SPP example from the vanc download. That example is for a high level athlete and I am clearly not a high level sprinter. I did a GPP program prior to this SPP, again not exactly as the example is laid out in the dvd but I tried to adapt it so that it would work for me. That said I don’t think I did the best job of that and I think I was too afraid of doing a higher volume of work which would increase my work capacity which would have helped me.

You said to follow the SPP example but halve the volume and keep tempo at 600-1500m but what about the fact that the vanc example is (partially) aimed at improving speed endurance which I don’t need? Also I messed up my count somehow :o and I will only be able to complete week 10 before I start this internship which will dictate my training.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks again for the replies.

7

i understand you are not a high level sprinters thats ok thats why i said cut the total volume in half and keep the tempo vol btw 600-1500. also i would probably have two high int days mon/thur, low int tue/fri, and mobility/circuit on wed. if you follow the spp program it will work even with the spilt runs 60m in the program, remember you are still taking plenty of rest btw those spilt 60’s and they are still speed. for spp i would keep one spilt run day and one speed for the first 7 weeks then move to two speed days weeks 8-12.

8

Why two high intensity days? I’ve read a number of Charlie’s posts where he says its better to spread the load across 3 days rather than the same volume on two days. Doing the SPP plan with half the volume may work, and the split 60s may develop some speed but wouldn’t it be more beneficial to adopt the ideas behind the planning, that CF lays out in the Vanc video, to suit my needs? I don’t think speed endurance should at all be a focus for me because its not needed in hockey and its only needed a bit at the end of the 60 and as CF says beginners are better off working on acceleration and general fitness.

Also, CF has said that the shorter the duration of the event the shorter/more phases needed. For example a shot putter needs more phases than a 200m who needs more than a 1500m. However, beginners should spend a longer time in the respective phases (esp GPP). I am looking at the most going to 60m and most of my training is aimed at improving accel but I am a beginner so where does that leave me in terms of the length/number of phases of training?

Maybe CF can give feedback on some of these questions…

9

well u can do what you like, you were asking for help and i was trying to help. my athletes including myself run fast so we must be doing something right, the cf methods that i revised slightly works…

10

I wasn’t trying to refute what you had to say or anything, I was just trying to figure out the reasons for your suggestion and get some discussion going about what would be best given my current situation. I appreciate your time and effort in helping me out.

11

i can tell you dont read much on the board bc many of the top coaches on the board who uses cf system only have 2 high int days coaches such as TC and many others. your post doesnt make much sense bc you say your not a high sprinter but want to argue about using two high int days.

12

Actually I read the forums here quite a bit. I am aware that TC and some of the other coaches that use CF’s system go with 2 high days a week. I actually sent a few PMs with TC about it and was very interested when he said he would write up a post about how he trains his athletes but he said he might publish something on the topic soon so he didn’t want to write that up yet.

I am just interested in the reasoning behind different recommendations in order to find whats best. Why do you think two high intensity days a week with X amount of volume would be better for me than three high intensity days a week also with X volume? Also why do you think altering CFs plan but sticking with repeat 60s would be better for me than altering the plan and using 60s (or whatever) for pure speed rather than SE development?

Thanks for your time.

13

the two days would be just fine remember its always better to undertrain then overtrain also you dont have all the therapy that cf athletes had and you also have to look at outside stressors that many pro athletes dont have to worry about like school etc. you nit picky now over red or green apples, the short speed end is still speed work its not your classical speed endurance work like 4x120 etc, myself i left as was even for my 55m guys.

14

Thanks for the help.

15

You mentioned keeping the tempo volume between 600 and 1500m during SPP, I assume this is per session, so you are looking at a weekly volume of say 2000 to 4000 a week roughly?? Correct me if I am wrong. Is this standard throughout the higher level sprinters. I assume, the higher level athletes can rely on less tempo as their overall conditioning is more in place, hence the shorter GPP. Unless, the contrary is true, and because they have used a shorter GPP, they keep the tempo volume up for slightly longer to aid the general conditioning. As you can see, I am confused, and find this quite overwhelming, especially when trying to put this into a programme! How about come the competition period, how does the tempo fit in here. What is the recommended volume per session and per week. I have the GPP download, and that gives the example of 2200m for that particular session, but I would be keen to learn how this develops later on into the training year.

16

I can’t really give you any useful advice, as I am only a beginner. I do have a question for you though.

What is your reasoning behind the progression of speed volume during SPP?

Your volume of speed work starts out very low at 300m in week one and progresses to a peak of 780m in week 10, before being reduced again in week 11.

Charlie’s example in the Vancouver graphs on the other hand starts out at 2160m in week one and is reduced as the weeks progress, eventually down to 1200m in week 12.

It seems that your volume is increasing during SPP, whereas in Charlie’s program the volume gets reduced as SPP progresses.

I understand that your speed volume is consistently quite low due to concerns about recovery. What I don’t understand though is why your volume of speed work starts out extremely low and then increases as SPP progresses.

17

I remember reading a Kelly Baggett article where he stated something along the lines of 'doing six heavy sets of squats twice per week is easier to recover from than doing 4 heavy sets of squats 3 times per week.

He uses the analogy that it is similar to turning on the lights at a sports stadium where turning the lights on initially requires a huge amount of power, but keeping them on for a bit longer is not that much more expensive. Turning the lights on for 4 minutes 3 times per week might cost $100 per session ($300 per week), whereas turning them on for six minutes 2 times per week might cost $110 per session ($220 per week).

He is talking about strength training, but I think it might also apply to sprinting. Maybe 300m of speed work done twice per week is easier to recover from than 200m done 3 times per week.

Charlie’s athletes had very good therapy available, so recovery time was shortened. Maybe doing speed twice per week is more suitable for athletes who don’t have access to skilled massage therapists etc.

18

That is interesting. However, using your example of 300s v 200s, are you going to the same benefits from those runs? The velocities reached in the 200 are likely to be greater, and it is likely that sound mechanices will be in place for a larger proportion of the rep in 200 metres. Therefore, is there a sacrifice in that aspect for substituting sessions in that maner? I do understand it was just an analogy you were using as opposed to actual sessions.

19

It sounds as if there is a short to long periodisation v a long to short periodisation.

20

I didn’t really explain myself properly. I meant 300m of total volume for the session vs 200m of total volume.