I’ve just watched Christian Malcom and Julian Golding run 20.39 (2nd place) and 20.37 (1st place) in the UKs AAA nationals. Both, but especially Julian, have little muscle and yet they have good speed and great speed endurance.
In the gym, weights with reps of 8-10 are often used to prime energy systems for training of such events. It seems to me that these two athletes have not/hardly used such (bodybuilding) weights and may have just relied on sprinting for speed and special endurance, along with low reps in the gym and maybe bodyweight circuits also; resulting in well developed anaerobic and aerobic pathways which have not resulted in a large volume of muscle. Any comments?
Circuits provides a strong lactic burn, but is the track eg. special endurance, tempo, intensive tempo, a better way of developing lactic tolerance at a muscular level? I am also thinking that the increased capillary bed from tempo and hence lactic clearance capacity, is more important than buffering for lactic tolerance?
Perhaps they have such good motor control they are able to recruit more of the available fibers (maybe upwards of 85%??) and therefore have no need to become bulky. Just my 2c. Any thoughts anyone??
I don’t know about Golding but I remember seeing a doco with Christian Malcolm declaring he is one of those guys that can’t put weight on no matter what he eats and that he was trying to bulk himself up in the gym… so maybe its not for want of trying
He probably has excellent power to weight though. If you think about it, the power to weight ratio changes more in the 200 that in the 100 due to the length of the event.
Over time, power decreases as energy systems are used and switched but weight remains constant, ergo, weight is more of an issue over the 200 than the 100.
Some good examples are Malcolm and A.Felix the young US girl. They have a favourable power to weight ration for the 200, but not enough power to really make a dent in the 100.
Good shout dcw, though christian malcom’s not without power as he has around run 10.1? The other thing n malcom’s favour is that he weighs under 70kg (67kg I think), so his power:weight ratio must be pretty damn good…
Richard, I think that the lactate (really the H+ ion) increase is so fast in the `sprints´ that clearance is not a factor but buffering is. Charlie can explain it much better, but he trains in the sub 70% zone and plus 90% zone. If lactate clearance was really a factor, there would also be training in between.
dcw23, interesting comments. Great comment on the weight to power ratio.
I have trouble believing, however, that the energy system change is really that great in a 200m, because the average velocity is so high and very comparable to the 100m for a world class 200m sprinter. I know it is the AVERAGE velocity, but I think that a 200m sprinter is still primarily working with the ATP-CP system, with increasingly more involvement of anaerobic glycolysis (lactate production).
Bruni has discussed learning to pace his 100m, and I believe Charlie wrote about this in speed trap as he discussed Ben’s Zurich 100m and the rate of power production when one goes all out in the first 60m. There are better sprint minds on the forum than me whom I would like to hear from on this topic.
I believe for both 100 and 200 it is primarily ATP-CP but the rate of power production is not the same. What do the rest of you think?
I believe ATP-CP runs out after about 8 secs. Which is why 100 guys decelerate around 80m. I guess the 100 must be using a higher proportion of this energy system than the 200, which still has another 120m to go using the anaerobic lactic system.
Carson, the reason I stated clearance as being an important factor is that performing high reps eg. 15, to enhance buffering, in the gym does not seem to enhance lactic tolerance much on the track. Whereas tempo (lactic not being much of factor) does. Tempo develops oxidative quality which may effectively lower lactic accumulation, but tempo also develops inreased capillary density which should clear lactic (plus lactate and H+) from the muscles quicker. It could be stated that to compare the qualities of buffering and clearance, the track would have to be used for each training parameter (not weights and track). However, with reps of 15 or similar, lactate and H+ accumulate throughout the entire muscle, therefore if buffering could be greatly improved to reduce fatigue on the track, reps of 15 would be effective in enhancing sprint performance, and would be comparable to tempo as a training source against lactic and fatigue.
To add to this, I have always performed reps of 15 in GPP and although lactic accumulated greatly, I have never felt the tolerance against it has improved greatly. However, recently I have started tempo both with sprinting and in the pool, and my lactic tolerance with weights has greatly improved without even performing these particular weights. I know some of this improved endurance will be due to oxidative qualities, but I am sure lactic clearance must also be a factor.
BTW, the other energy system that is very important in the 200m is glycolysis (apart from free ATP and Cr-ATP), which is the cause of lactic production.
Originally posted by Richard Hand
[b]Carson, the reason I stated clearance as being an important factor is that performing high reps eg. 15, to enhance buffering, in the gym does not seem to enhance lactic tolerance much on the track. Whereas tempo (lactic not being much of factor) does. Tempo develops oxidative quality which may effectively lower lactic accumulation, but tempo also develops inreased capillary density which should clear lactic (plus lactate and H+) from the muscles quicker. It could be stated that to compare the qualities of buffering and clearance, the track would have to be used for each training parameter (not weights and track). However, with reps of 15 or similar, lactate and H+ accumulate throughout the entire muscle, therefore if buffering could be greatly improved to reduce fatigue on the track, reps of 15 would be effective in enhancing sprint performance, and would be comparable to tempo as a training source against lactic and fatigue.
To add to this, I have always performed reps of 15 in GPP and although lactic accumulated greatly, I have never felt the tolerance against it has improved greatly. However, recently I have started tempo both with sprinting and in the pool, and my lactic tolerance with weights has greatly improved without even performing these particular weights. I know some of this improved endurance will be due to oxidative qualities, but I am sure lactic clearance must also be a factor.
BTW, the other energy system that is very important in the 200m is glycolysis (apart from free ATP and Cr-ATP), which is the cause of lactic production. [/b]
I’ve actually found that performing fatigue weights in the gym have had an enormous effect on my lactic tollerance/clearance on the track. The difference is quite profound.
Richard, as your oxidative potential or aerobic fitness improves through tempo, your lactate clearance will improve. The produced lactate can be more efficiently dealt with through aerobic means. But this is mainly occuring during the your rest periods. You are recovering more efficiently as the lactate is cleared during REST. This effect is amplified with more sets when you are aerobically fitter.
Lactate clearance is simply too slow to be a big factor in the 200, or even the 400, IMO. And the lactate does not cause the fatigue, it is the increase in H+ ion concentration. If the individual runs are better, or your 200 or 400 races improve, IMO this is buffering taking place, which also can be trained with fatigue weight training, as Dazed does.
The 3 energy systems do not operate independently of each other. There is no switch at 7.5 - 8 seconds that shifts suddenly from anaerobic-alactic energy production to anaeroobic glycolysis. Power production drops at around 8 seconds, yes - this indicates that there is a limit to alactic energy production.
As waste products accumulate (it is H+ ions that cause the problems, not lactate) there are changes in the muscle that cause other energy systmes to be used more. I agree to a point that lactate metabolism is used much more in the 200 than in the 100. But look at the number of reactions that are involved in anaerobic glycolysis and compare this to the number of reactions in the breakdown of stored ATP and CP.
IF there was really a complete shift to anaerobic glycolysis, there is no way anyone could run under 20 seconds. The rate of energy production by the ATP-CP system is much higher than anaerobic glycolysis. This rate difference is much too high - a simplistic shift in energy systems after 8 seconds would not allow the average velocity for the 200 to be greater than the 100.
So regarding clearance, increased capillarisation from tempo is only of value after a sprint has ceased for mechanical clearance of metabolites, and not during the sprint?
Carson, since one mechanism for H+ removal is by following lactate out of lactate channels, lactate will be a factor in fatigue, or if the above is true, lactate will be a factor in slowing recovery.
Kidscoach, all 3 of the energy systems discussed, are active at the same time, but in different ratios to each other. For example, if you’re just sitting at the computer reading this post, then the system that’s being utilised the most is obviously the aerobic pathway.
Now to come back to the point of power being able to be regenerated after 8-10 seconds, the PC stores are always being replenished during exercise, however, where in a sprint would you need to use power again after the first initial explosion out of the blocks? My guess is that you wouldn’t (though i’m no expert)
Not entirely sure as to the accurcy of this, little rusty on the old exercise phys!!
Any thoughts guys??
After the free ATP has been utilised (about 1 second) the Cr-ATP system has begun and the ATP it produces gradually decreases during a 100/200 sprint - PC stores are continually being replenished but not enough to keep ATP production maximal from this source. During a 400m the energy from Cr-ATP is more constant during the run although more energy is derived from the system at the beginning and end of the run. Shortly after the free ATP has been used glycolysis begins and gradually increases its ATP production until the end of the sprint. Aerobic pathways become more significant nearer the end of the 200, and gradually increase during the 400 sprint.
Richard and mr magoo: I don´t think that you can restore CP levels during exercise. If you have references, please post them.
IMO aerobic metabolism is not much of a factor in the 200m, and IMO not that much in the 400m either. I really believe that things are happening too fast to get much ATP aerobically in 45-50 seconds.
I did not personally see the test, so I don´t know if the athlete was motivated, or in poor shape at the time, but she was active. She was a sub 49 sec 400 (consistent 50-51) and her VO2max was less than 50 ml/kg/min. Not too impressive for the guys in the white coats, but she could sprint. Anyone have numbers on VO2max for 400m sprinters?
I don´t want to speculate on other metabolites, but I feel that lactate CLEARANCE is irrelevant in the sprints. Everything is happening too fast, and clearance is relatively slow.
I think we need to remember that ideas on metabolism during exercise, especially at sprint intensity, are mostly theoretical constructs, and have not really been proven. We see what is happening at a performance level, but we may not really know why or how.
No one except Rachel Welch and her cronies in Fantastic Voyage (name of the movie?) oh - and Dennis Quaid have ever been in a human body and seen it all up close! Huxley´s theory of muscle contraction (cross bridging) is a theory.
Carson, by CP restoration I mean partial replenishment since Cr is constantly binding to Phoshate and constantly donating phosphate also…the cycle keeps cycling…even though the total energy from CP diminishes throughout the distance…atleast in the 100/200 anyway. In the 400 however, due to the higher intensity in the home straight, it can be shown that CP system increases its energy input near the end of the 400m. This would be possible if the particular athlete finds the middle 200 of the distance of moderate intensity (ie. a well prepared athlete), and Cr is being replenished faster than it CP is donating P, hence CP is being stored and can then be utilised in the home straight.
Richard, CP cannot be replenished during exercise. ATP is needed to do this.
I really can´t see a 400m sprinter ‘kicking’ the last 100m. He or she is simply not slowing down as much as the others.
Dazed, buffering is the uptake of H+ ions that are produced during high intensity exercise. The body is very sensitive to pH (measure of H+ concentration) changes. Buffering in the muscle takes place when lactic acid is formed. Lactic acid will dissociate immediatley to lactate and H+, but the H+ causes the metabolic problems for the muscle. If the H+ can be buffered, the pH of the muscle will not change as quickly.
Clearance, IMO is only a factor in events where the intensity is much lower, i.e. distance events when the atlete is working at or near lactate threshold. In the sprints the aerobic system is simply too slow to metabolize as fast as it is being produced.
Check out a exer phys text, or do a search and compare the length of the metabolic pathways needed to breakdown lactate or convert it to the pathways that produce it.
Most 400m sprinters will tell you that a good 400m hurts more after the race than during. IMO the body is then dealing with the metabolites produced during the race.
I was thinking more along the lines of what processes were you reffering to when you were talking about buffering both Lactic and H+. Generally when people refer to buffering they are talking about neutralising the pH of the muscle cell using an alkaline substance. Unfortunately calcium is the most abundant alkaline substance in the body, which also plays a large role in muscular contraction
I think that the aerobic system plays a major role in developing lactic tollerance (or rather H+). Increases in mitochondria function have shown dramatic reductions in lactic levels during and post excercise (Also thought to be the reason CP helps reduce acid levels).
I guess the reason for my question is, if we all decelerate no matter how much we train, then is there a point in the race that the body could put more bang for the buck back into the firing of motor units etc? In other words, could I after decelerating for 30 meters actually begin to speed up again or is everyone else just slowing down faster? And then there’s that crazy clock making me think I’m decreasing my times…
