The point I was making is that highly technical
work should be done first in a workout and so it’s tough to fit it in at the end and in the GPP it’s very tough to adjust it over to the low intensity day, even in the AM with sprints the following PM.
Charlie,
Thank you very much for the responses and I look forward to part 3.
I guess I am a bit surprised about Angella because in CFTS as well as in her own book she seems to indicate using the powerclean. Clearly not on its own or to some excessive degree, but as a part of the program.
The weights programs I saw from Marion was when she won the gold in Sydney and I believe are posted on this site in involved plenty of cleans, jerks, etc.
I whole heartedly agree that simply relying on a powerclean or any single lift at all is going to get you into trouble for the reasons you elucidated, as well as many others (for example, in many facilities, you cannot drop weights or have bad bars). Likewise, the upper body lifting has been too significant in top performers to neglect it (not to say all, but a very large % do it).
I do not see though how a powerclean is anymore specific than a squat or a lunge or anything else. Granted, it does lie closer to sprinting on the F:V curve, but it is still quite far away and only slightly faster (from a m/s perspective) than moderately loaded squats and probably doesn’t utilize more MUs than deadlifts. In fact, I can see many areas where I squat is more specific, though I think both are very general in nature (unless you get into some absurd stuff I have heard of people doing like single leg light hang snatches, etc.). Likewise, I also do not see how doing say 2x6x600lb half squat is less intensive on the CNS than, I don’t know, doing 6x2x315 in the powerclean. Different stimuli, sure, but more intensive?
Charlie,
Thank you very much for the responses and I look forward to part 3.
I guess I am a bit surprised about Angella because in CFTS as well as in her own book she seems to indicate using the powerclean. Clearly not on its own or to some excessive degree, but as a part of the program.
The weights programs I saw from Marion was when she won the gold in Sydney and I believe are posted on this site in involved plenty of cleans, jerks, etc.
I whole heartedly agree that simply relying on a powerclean or any single lift at all is going to get you into trouble for the reasons you elucidated, as well as many others (for example, in many facilities, you cannot drop weights or have bad bars). Likewise, the upper body lifting has been too significant in top performers to neglect it (not to say all, but a very large % do it).
I do not see though how a powerclean is anymore specific than a squat or a lunge or anything else. Granted, it does lie closer to sprinting on the F:V curve, but it is still quite far away and only slightly faster (from a m/s perspective) than moderately loaded squats and probably doesn’t utilize more MUs than deadlifts. In fact, I can see many areas where I squat is more specific, though I think both are very general in nature (unless you get into some absurd stuff I have heard of people doing like single leg light hang snatches, etc.). Likewise, I also do not see how doing say 2x6x600lb half squat is less intensive on the CNS than, I don’t know, doing 6x2x315 in the powerclean. Different stimuli, sure, but more intensive?
The arguement for the clean being specific mainly centers on the fact that it involves such a high percentage of the body’s MUs and is often used as the only lift. Marion was not much of a lifter and mainly squatted 225 and benched 135 and her lifting in NC consisted of general work BEFORE the track session, so not very stressful. The guys in NC used to bitch cause she could leave the weights session but they had to stay. Not big numbers by any means, yet ,while here, Derek and I filmed her and she was running sub world indoor record times over 60m (counting frames on video).
Thank you for the response. It makes things much clearer.
With strength at these levels, what do you think accountant for her ability to get extension out of the blocks like she did?
At around 14mins into the film CF talks about staggering the max strength lifts. Charlie can you please touch on this some more.
Is this accurate?
Weeks 1-3 Incline press
Weeks 2-4 Squats
Weeks 4-6 Bench press
No the first week you list is for the introduction of the max phase for each lift and they each run the normal duration the training phase allows for, overlapping for a significant portion of the time and adjusted as needed.
Of course the lifts are present before and after and the adjustments are smooth-edged to prevent stiffness, like all other aspects of vertical Integration training.
Are they really strength levels or are they a partial expression of true strength?
Interesting… I am the same way with jumps… I can go pretty high for my relative strength… Higher than most guys who lift x2 as me and do plyometrics.
I was alot stronger when all I did was powerlifting training… Track really drains all your resources I suppose.
Wow, I totally misunderstood that part of the film maybe I need to watch again for the third time. So what are you doing too allow for extra time to be spent in the max strength department which = longer peak, is it a longer max strength block etc?
Waiting for part 2, you did a great job with part 1…
There’s a lot in there and a lot has never been discussed before so I don’t expect anyone to get it all first time through
The downloads are great and rank right up there with the gpp for must have products, but it seems like you have change your strength training philosophy a little over the past couple years.
1:The ol’s.
2: Seems like if an athlete has a 12 week spp you now recommend a focus on max strength the whole 12 weeks VS. 3-1-3 follow by 5 weeks of maint weights before going into season.
Bravo Charlie,
I have spoken on this subject for some time now and it’s only one of the reasons why I’ve never had a weight training record board in any of my weight rooms.
1:Part three will be out shortly covering how to incorporate the cleans- and what the pluses are (I covered a bunch of minuses and hope I didn’t freak anyone out!)
2: The max strength phases COULD go out as far as 12 weeks but I am in no way suggesting that it SHOULD and the duration is dependent on level, strength change required and the length of the opportunity.
As I’ve pointed out on the annual plans I’ve prepared, max strength phases for top athletes are usually much shorter.
Thanks Charlie, hope you dont mind answering my lame questions… I am waiting for part 3!! I don’t have a problem with using ol’s, I have had success with and without them.
Weights for Speed CD1
Over the years Charlie has provided A LOT of information as it pertains to weight lifting and how it impacts the speed power athlete. However, in this video I believe Charlie goes in to greater detail than he has at any point on this site.
[ul]
[li]Charlie explains how weight progress from general to specific earlier on in an athlete’s career and then back to general as they improve
[/li]
I must say I really enjoyed how Charlie he frequently discusses the concept of general or specific isn’t static and that the definition takes on different meanings depending on where the athlete is in their development
[li]His depth and understanding of the application of resistance training is quite clear as he describes how a max strength phase can be begin during the GPP by carefully bleeding (“staggering”)in compound/primary lifts like incline or flat bench followed by lifts such as squats or cleans with out compromising the athletes progression on the track
[/li]
[li]Charlie explains with great specificity how clean, squat, incline bench and flat bench can be carefully placed and managed in and around competition to effectively maintain the strength peak for a longer period.
[/li]
[li]Gender differences have frequently been discussed on this site, however, CF takes the conversation deeper by discussing the limiting variable(s) and how it must be managed, both in the weight room and on the track
[/li]
[li]The sensitive relatiionshp between plyos and sprinting is revisted (a topic that can be reviewed enough) as Charlie explains how the implemenation of plyos can positively and more importantly NEGATIVE effect sprinting as they competes for the same reserves
[/li]
[li]NUMEROUS examples are given as to how
[/li]weight training evolves in concert with sprint training over the years of an athlete’s career to ensure
[/ul]
This is my review of Weights for Speed (Part 2); I’m a little late in getting this done and I apologize; I’m recovering from my first kidney stone (BRUTAL)! Anyway, on with the review…
In Part 2 of the new Weights for Speed video series, Charlie begins with an overview of General Strength Development options and their advantages and disadvanatages for beginner, intermediate, and top level athletes:
Med Ball:
Pro’s- easy to learn and use, low-cost, portable, great learning tool to teach acceleration with low stress (no paralyis by analysis) etc…
con’s- no pulling actions, mostly “pushing” actions.
Circuit Weights
Pro’s- fast to get through, can be used by groups, etc…
Con’s- Cannot always optimize the order of exercises; not much of a problem for beginners however.
Stage Weights
Pro’s- can optimize oder of lifts
Con’s- slower to get through, hard to get large # of athletes to use.
Sequence of General Strength Options
How long an athlete will spend using each of the general strength options depends on multiple factors such as whether using a long to short progression versus a short to long progression.
As a rule of thumb: more explosive athletes will favor a short to long program whereas, long and lanky athletes may beneft more from a long to short program.
Charlies then goes on to explain some pretty detailed graphs of the relative capacity of athletes to tolerate higher (A workouts) and lower intensity (B workout; i.e. tempo sessions) sprint sessions within a training week for beginner, intermediate, and high-level sprinters. He then ties this in to how your weight sessions must integrate in with the speed work to ensure you don’t overload your CNS capacity levels.
Take-home points of this section:
- workouts must be tailored to respect the CNS and bodily effect of the higher intensity (A workouts) speed sessions. If speed work is spectacular on any given day, don’t be afraid to back off the volume of strength work or even occasionally skip it all together. This section if really the “nitty gritty” of this video and should be watched a few times to fully grasp what Charlie is saying.
The next section has Charlie explaining how to integrate a handful of key “general” lifts into a top-level/elite athlete’s strength program without overloading the already burdened CNS. The key when dealing with a sprinter at this level is the managing of CNS stress throughout the week so that optimal recovery occurs between high intensity sessions. As an example, the highest CNS sessions may now be 96 hours apart (i.e. Mon and Fri) with a less intense session on Wed. The strength exercises to be included will also be varied to coincide with the stress response of the day. As an example, Incline press will be used on Wednesday instead of bench press since less weight can be used on inclines. Squat sets/reps will also be varied throughout the week to respect the CNS. This section is full of great info and must be watched a few times to digest it all.
Bottom line from the section= Sprinting is always #1, Weights is #2……therefore, don’t hesitate to eliminate weights on a given day when CNS reserve was drained with very high-quality sprinting (of course he’s talking about elite level sprinters here). Most beginners can’t max out their CNS so can training both sprints and weights on the same day without the risk of a high-level competitor.
The next section has Charlie explaining examples of “Annual Strength Progressions” for beginners through elite level sprinters.
- Obviously, beginners and intermediate will make more progress as they are further away from their genetic limit or ceiling.
*He also talks about various periodization strategies in a given year (double or triple periodization) as well as strength progressions for a long to short program versus a short to long.
- Short speed work (short-to-long program) is more conducive to max strength development than longer, endurance type of work (long-to-short program).
The final section in the video has to do with Charlie’s view on the actual sets/reps of the strength work. He talks about most programs not going over 6 reps but that he occasionally liked to go up to 10 reps; especially with more novice sprinters or early on in the GPP phase of the year. He then goes on to talk about the Golden Rule of strength development which is the proverbial 5 x 5 program that has been around for ages.
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Not all sessions where 5 x 5 is desired will take place however, as CNS might be too drained from actual sprint work. Therefore, 1-3 x 5 might happen instead or no lifting at all. It all depends on what state the athlete is in after the sprint session.
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Don’t be paranoid about losing strength from the occasional missed strength session; strength will go up anyway due to high power output on the track. Again, sprinting is the priority, weights are secondary.
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The higher level of the athlete, the lower the # of the sets due to the heavier weights being used. Sometimes only 2 work sets is enough; especially in an exercise like the squat (Ben Johnson could squat 600 pounds).
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When desired strength levels are achieved, strength maintenance becomes the goal.
This video was a little more involved for me and required multiple playbacks of certain sections to fully grasp the concepts. All in all however, the time spent studying and re-studying what Charlie is saying is time well spent. Along with the first video, this is a great addition to the collection!
Keats Snideman
Chandler, AZ
What if the athlete only have two high intensity days.