Hi all,
Can someone give me examples of gym session/s that would help improve strength + power in a horizontal jumper.
Has anyone been following a proven training programme that has a track record of producing positive results?
Your info is welcomed …aii
tomo1
No one on this site. In fact the Charlie Francis Training System is only notable for being unproven and having a track record of producing negative results. If you’re looking for real results quick I suggest ultra-high depth jumps and overspeed training. Periodization is not a concern because injury will set in before you plateau in any fasion.
Ok, I’m kidding. The CFTS is very effective. http://www.charliefrancis.com/store/Scripts/default.asp Or browse the site for a little bit and when it starts annoying you that you don’t know what the hell anyone is talking about shell out the $17.
Very helpful, obviously you think i cannot read.
I hope that little release of uneccessary humour helped you in some way.
cheers.
(any one have anything constructive? I was hoping for brief examples of gym sessions for discussion etc? )
Well I didn’t think you couldn’t read, I just thought you were too lazy to do so. If you can, why don’t you do some searching through the strength training section or the training journals section and look at some of the discussions on sessions that have proved effective for people. Of course just copying a session isn’t going to be effective, you have to have an understanding of a system which I think is why you asked about any proven systems people have found to be effective. What kind of answer to you expect? Most people on here use the CFTS and find it very effective. Examples of its use and discussions about it can be found throughout the site and most thoroughly in the e-books. So put that literate mind to some good use and do some searching and reading instead of asking the same question that has been asked three billion times already.
I think the best way to see examples of programs is to look at some of the training journals on the forum. I can always gather ideas from them, and most of them are very in-depth.
Tomo 1, the most important thing to do when setting up a strength training program is to perform a “Needs Analysis.” By this, you basically figure out what the most important “motor qualities” for your sport and event are and then see where you currently lie on say, a scale of 1-10. You mentioned that you are a “horizontal jumper,” and by this I’m assuming you mean a long or triple jumper?
Obviously, as with sprinting, high levels of maximal, eccentric, isometric, and explosive strength are needed to produce good performances in jumping as well as a minimum amount of flexibility (both static and dynamic). The best thing to do would be to outline what you are currently capable of doing both on the track and in the gym and then see where your greatest discrepencies lie. Pick two to three primary qualities to work on for a given macro or meso-cycle while putting the other necessary qualities on hold or maintanence. It’s just too dificult to try to improve ALL aspects of performance at one time; your body can only adapt to so many stimuli?
This is a much better approach to use then just “blindly” following some program that worked for another athlete, even if that athlete performs your exact event. Hope this makes sense. Post what you are currently doing and maybe some of us can stear you in the right direction.
How would you determine where you lie on a scale and what would be the norms? How would these norms be adjusted for body type, explosiveness, etc?
Charlie, I don’t really think that there are any “norms” so to speak for a given athlete but if you want to be a long jumper for example, and you can only back squat 135 lbs to parallel you’ve got some work to do! The idea of creating a scale is a subjective one but nevertheless, it gives a trainee some direction as to where they should focus their attention. For instance, if I’m a 100 meter sprinter with a mesomorphic body type and stand at 5’10, I would look at other great sprinters with a similar build to myself. I would see what types of lifts (Bench, squat, power clean ,etc.) this performer could perform and use them as a guide as to where I might improve my strength performances. Better to use other’s programs as guides rather than “reinvent the wheel” so to speak. However, if one does not individualize the program to him/herself, good results are not guaranteed.
To answer the second part of your question, the norms (goals) for different body types have to taken into account as ectomorphic builds for example, can’t be expected to produce the strength performances of a pure mesomorph or endomorph. The body type classificaitons are not an exact science but can be helpful when setting up goals and plans for strength work. I know Christian Thibedeau has written some intersting articles for so-called “easy-hard gainers” on T-nation so maybe he could chime in here and give his opinion.
I know for myself, being more on the ectomorphic side, that my biggest defecit is lack of strength. I’m not naturally blessed with good general strength in the gym so I focus most of my attention there. I’ve fooled around with so-called explosive strength methods such as the infamous “dynamic effort methods” used by power lifters (8 sets of 3 @50%1RM), but really got no noticeable benefit to my strength, muscle mass, or sprint speed. As you’ve alluded to in the past, it’s hard to beat sprinting for power work so that a sprinter’s best use of the gym is for maximal strength work. However there are other motor qualities than just strength (e.g. flexibility, speed, etc.) so it does seem a good tool for a trainee to keep an on-going needs analysis to contantly insure the best use of training time.
why would you “focus most of you attention there” i.e., your “biggest deficit, the lack of strength”?
it just makes more sense to me to focus on your strong points more, since there is no way you can really take max returns in your performance by focusing on something that is weaker by “definition” vs. your stongest points, which if appropriately fine tuned will boost your performance. This does not mean of course that weaker points should be left even further adrift
not sure if Charlie agrees on this 
PS i fully agree with the second part of your paragraph
Well, if I’m not naturally blessed with great strength, doesn’t it makes sense that I might be able to make the most progess there since I’m starting from a lower point. After all, training is the great equalizer. It’s not that I’m pathetically weak (PR’s BP-225x2, Full squat- 285x1, Chin-ups-260x1), but I certainly have had to work HARD to get where I’m at. At 5’10 I fluctuate between 155-160 lbs and graduated high shcool at 132 lbs. I’m naturally good at moving light objects fast (like my bodyweight) but not so good at moving heavy weights. Therefore, I focus a lot my time in the gym trying to get bigger and stronger. This makes sense to me.
You make the most progress where you have the most aptitude or capacity for improvement which is not necessarily where you are the weakest. Of course you need to improve on areas that are limiting factors, but, I you can already move your bodyweight easily, is your weightlifting a limiting factor?
(Think of Calvin Smith)
At 5’10 you should be able to get very strong really fast not to harp on you but your 1RM squat at 285 and bench at 225 are both relatively weak. Why don’t you post a sample microcycle or 1 week program so that we can see what you are doing wrong. I have personally had people work out with me at different heights and within 3 months all of there bench presses went to at least 245 and one guy was 5’6 but only weighed like 130 lbs but still was able to bench 275 (he was already bencing 245 before I helped him).
As long jumper both speed and strength are very important and the CFTS is the best way to develop it. Just look at Marion Jones she went from sprinting to longjumping with relative ease as did Carl Lewis. Yes it takes years to perfect technique but there biggest gains were already there bc they were both fast and strong as well.
Post your microcycle and I will tell you what you are doing wrong. Any average person should see there bench go up to 245 within 6 months and 275 within 2 years relatively easily; as well as a 315 full squat.
Let me say this, considering your height and bodymass, if your goal is to increase max strength, my money is betting on the need for you to increase muscle cross-section in the prime movers for the lifts which you are trying to develop (proximally located muscle groups).
It is no mystery as to why DE training did little to increase your limit strength. You must first have sufficient levels of muscle cross-section in order to facilitate the max force contraction potential of muscle fiber.
well, i think you have your answer to the issue i raised by Charlie himself, but for what it’s worth, here it is what i would write anyway
of course, you will have the biggest improvements in your “weaker” area of strength, but will this translate to equally fast times on the track? As you point out you have already spent quite some time in improving your strength, but you might as well have spent your efforts somewhere else for max returns on performance; in other words, yes, i would stick to “moving light objects fast, i.e., you bodyweight”! If advances in max str interrupt/slow down development of top speed for example, what’s the point? Not that they necessarily do in your case, but perhaps it could have been even better…
hope you take this as constructive criticism only!
My current RM’s might seem weak to you but they are vastly superior to where I began. I’ve also not been consistent with my lifting in the last two years as I’ve been finishing a degree and have 2 small children (no sleep). I’ve pretty much been on a maintanence program for the last 2 years due to my life circumstances. I know how to get stronger as I have been in the sports performance idustry for over 10 years and have trained numerous professional and collegiate athletes. So, to recap, I’m not doing anything “wrong” with my training as I have not been able to focus on it for a couple of years. In the next few months I look to increase my max strength considerably as I now have the time to devote to my training. Once I get my bodyweight back up to 170 or so my max strength will go up as it has in the past.Thanks for the comments however.
Nikolouski, no worries with your comments. I only mention what I believe to be best for me based on past experience when I was stronger and heavier. At a bodyweight near 170 lbs I ran 10.8 for 100m. After some life curcumstances that kept me out of training for a while my bodyweight and strength plummeted. At a lighter weight I seam to be “spining my wheels” so to speak and haven’t run under 11 seconds since. I will now be able to focus on my training for the first time in two years and was only commenting from previous experience. Thanks for the comment however.
James Smith, you are absolutely right. I ran my fastest 100m time at aorund 168 lbs. It’s been several years since I’ve been that heavy so I know that as I gain more size my strength will go up as it has in the past. The PR’s I posted were PR’s that I’ve tried in the past few years. They are probably not true Pr’s since I train alone and am a little cautious about maxing out by myself. With about 10 lbs of increased mass I know my RM’s will go up which will improve my sprinting times. My only problem is the inability at times to consume the amount of food it requires me to gain the mass. With some good liquid meal replacements I know it can be done however.
I really wasn’t looking to get a lot of advice on my posts, but rather to assist Tomo 1 with his quest to design a good personalized strength program. Thanks to all who commented though. This is a very busy internet group that has lots of different opinions which makes things very interesting to say the least! Happy New year to everyone!