Questioning Poliquin

Keep in mind that most of Poliquin’s writings are directed toward the general bodybuiling/strength training community, since that is his largest potential market. As such, most of his published material is well suited to that audience and fairly general in nature.

It’s always a tricky job applying general principles to particular sports, and sprinting is one of the quirkiest. In addition to the strength pyramid relationships already discussed, sprinting also does not lend itself to a traditional conversion phase, which usually applies to other sports.

I met Poliquin at a seminar he gave three and half years ago on sprinting and speed development. There are some similarities between his approach and Charlie’s, e.g., short to long periodization, and I know Charlie’s work has had an influence on him. However, Poliquin does differ on a few points.

For one, he doesn’t really see the need for tempo running (except maybe during GPP phases). He also does not believe in sprint training year round (not during GPP phases), opting instead for emphasis on drills (he was vague on this point) and sled towing (which he considers strength work, not speed work).

His strength training approach is also different from Charlie’s. During the SPP, Poliquin recommended using times under tension roughly equal to the duration of the event. Therefore, a 100m sprinter would emphasize low rep sets that could be completed within about 10 seconds. I have to go back and check my notes, but I also believe he recommended keeping plyometric sets to less than 20 seconds for similar reasons.

I found one point he made on exercise selection interesting. During the GPP, when one is not performing specific sprint work in his system, he uses the single leg exercises (step ups, lunges, etc.) which are supposed to be more specific to sprinting. Then during the SPP, he recommends shifting to more general two leg exercises like squats, since the sprinting itself takes care of the sport-specific stimulus. While Poliquin’s GPP approach is different from Charlie’s, his SPP method definitely follows Charlie’s logic of using general strength exercises in combination with sprinting.

Charlie, how about a 10.44 guy with 33.16(300m) SE inplace, should he be able to do more than 4 reps with 80% 0f max.
Max bench=335lb

On the comment about sprint training year round. If you have the resources this is possible. From recovery to suppplements. But if you dont have anything. This might be to much wear and tear on the body.

Wear and tear are determined by the training load and recovery program. If there are limitations, I would drop (or ideally reduce) one of the other components before speed work. Like Charlie mentioned before, there have been many top sprinters who didn’t do much weight training, but there’s never been a top sprinter that didn’t sprint. And there’s a difference between not being able to sprint due to uncontrolled outside factors and deliberately designing it into the program because of a particular training theory.

Does anyone know why John Smith is against year round speedwork.

I am surprised that any athlete would not be able to do more that 4-5 reps on 80% of one’s maximum. For myself, with over 20 years weight training experience, I have long been able to do around 10 reps on 80%.
Even now, with my bench having deterioated to 135kg for a single (ass on bench), I can still do 9 reps on 110kg.

Though other sources differ in reps predictions, I read a Soviet Sports Review in the 1980s, written by Yessis, who indicates 3-4 reps for 90% and around 10 reps for 80%. In fact, all athletes I have known, whether sprinters, throwers, or even bodybuilders, could do more than 5 reps on 80%.

Obviously, going all out for a single or reps on 80% needs to be done on separate days. I would not do a maximum or a set on 80% on the same day or week.

Hey it happens chief. Im suprised when a guy can rep out 225 for 20 then struggle with 315.

Also im sure scott mendel who benched 875 the other day. Isnt planning on doing ten reps of 700pnds anytime soon!!!

:smiley:

I find it interesting that Poliquin has lots of ideas on how to train sprinters. My question is who has he developed into a world class sprinter? I also find his references to weight room activities being “more specific to sprinting” to be dubious. Nothing done in the weight room is specific to sprinting. I assume that following from his ideas, alternating single-arm dumbell curls are more specific to sprinting than barbell curls. Not plausible.

reps @ a certain % depend on your training style plus some fiber type influence, but from what I know, if you train low rep all the time, that’s what all your body will be good at. And vice versa.

I doubt the bench shirt he was wearing at the time would allow sufficient circulation to squeeze out 10 reps :smiley:

I doubt Scott Mendell can run a 32 sec 300m either. As for 10.44 and 33.1, it dependes on the emphasis. if the 300m IS emphasized, it’s a little below the potential indicated by 10.44. (Desai ran 31.2 when he was running 10.28 and 20.61)

The 300 was the emphasis and to some degree it is a regular training distance. Going off what you said; his 300m is below the potential indicated by 10.44, whould it be correct to say that this lagging in special endurance is indicative of his inability to do more than 4-5 reps with 80% of his max? Should he hold back on trying to make gains in strength and put that cns energy into pushing up his special endurance.
Bench 335lb
Clean 300lb

Scott mendall trains in shirts half the time dazed. Also my point was that he cant rep out on the higher weight thats all.

Good question.

Cue Arnie voice…‘I’m BACK’ (finally - thanks Rupert)

… and it looks like you’ve taken advantage of my absence! :mad:

Carson
This post was made primarily to stimulate discussion. This forum is both educational and entertainment. Are my points personal? Are they not constructive?

Also, re-read the thread with CT. I made some valid points which on some level he acknowledged. Not to go back over old ground but would Charlie recommend ‘functional’ isometrics? :D. No one else had the balls to say it - does that make me destructive? Is CT above criticism? Obviously I’m not! :mad:

Vash

Look, poliquin is making generalizations under the name “principals”, as with all generalizations you can usually find a scenario that clashes with the generalization.

I disagree. It is not terrifically difficult to write these ‘principles’ more accurately to avoid any possible exceptions. I have done so below.

poliquin seems to say the same thing you are, that is pick a percentage of the 1 rep max (say 80%) and the fiber type of the athlete will dictate how many reps can be done with this percentage.

Exactly I use his principles to disprove one of his principles

Determining Optimum Repetition Number

Research and practical experience suggest that a certain threshold of intensity (percentage of 1RM) must be breached in order to stimulate an increase in strength. There is however disagreement on the value of that threshold. Certainly, novice strength athletes can improve strength using loads as low as 60% whilst conversely, some Russian coaches do not log training loads below 80%!

The relationship between intensity and load is subject to wide inter-individual variation. Athletes with extremely high percentages of fast twitch fibres may only be able to perform 3 repetitions with an 80% load. Conversely, endurance athletes may be able to perform more than 30 repetitions at the same intensity. The relationship also varies for different muscle groups within the body due to differences in fibre composition*. The hamstrings for example have a higher proportion of fast twitch fibres than the quadriceps and hence greater reps are possible at 75% when performing knee extensions than when performing knee flexions (curls!). Finally, training itself can influence muscle fibre ratios hence the relationship is variable over time.

The relationship is not exactly linear. This may cause problems during programs that utilise different numbers of reps (see ‘Fallacies’ below).

Consider 75% to be the threshold for improvements in strength. An athlete can approximate the highest numbers of reps that should be performed in a given exercise as follows:

Maximum Reps = No. of reps possible at 75% 1RM

Test Limitations

Total time under tension is reduced by an increase in the speed of the eccentric action. This reduces the cumulative fatigue caused by each repetition and hence permits higher numbers of reps. It is necessary therefore that the exercise is performed strictly and that ‘cheat’ methods are eliminated.

Certain exercises do not safely lend themselves to the test because stabilising muscles fatigue before the prime movers. In pulling movements for example, the spinal erectors fatigue before the hip extensors.

Exercises that have a high skill component (e.g. Olympic lifts) are rarely performed in sets of greater than three reps. Fatigue negatively effects motor control and hence causes a break down in technique that increases risk of injury. Additionally performing reps under fatigue is detrimental to the complex and precise inter and intra muscular coordination that is required for maximum performance.

Common Fallacies

  1. Low reps cause overtraining

It is prolonged periods of high intensity (>90%) that cause overtraining. Low repetitions do not necessitate high intensities. Westside powerlifters for example, perform doubles at intensities as low as 60%. Also, as discussed previously; some athletes may have a 3RM of only 80%!

  1. Low reps do not cause hypertrophy

Low reps can induce significant hypertrophy providing total time under tension (TTUT) is sufficient. Consider the following two workouts:

  1. 3x8r @ 75%
  2. 8x3r @ 85%

The greater load in Workout 2 increases TTUT (due to slower movement velocities) and average muscle tension. Granted training density (i.e. Tonnage divided by total time to complete sets), depending on recovery time, will be lower in Workout 2 but this variable is much less powerful. Overall I would expect Workout 2 to provide the greater stimulus for hypertrophy.

  1. ‘Pyramiding’ is an effective training scheme

Pyramid training is at best an inefficient training scheme. The early high repetition sets fatigue the lifter prior to the heavier sets that require most recruitment, stabilisation and motor control. (to be completed…)

· I recognise that the terms ‘fast’ and ‘slow’ twitch fibres is a significant simplification

posted by david w

Athletes with extremely high percentages of fast twitch fibres may only be able to perform only 3 repetitions with an 80% load

Thats the most solid thing I have ever heard. Im going to paste that to my bedroom wall.

I got to say I agree with the higher the reps are the more injuries occur. Lets compare bodybuilders to powerlifters and see who gets injured more often. Its almost accepted in the bodybuilding industry to train while injured. Those guys are hardcore Im not going to lie. It seems like their is more stress put on the joints during high rep activities for me thats 4 reps. Every extra rep hurts. It feels like my bones in my wrist or collarbone could snap. Not the case during singles however. I dont know what the studies/theories show or are. But I feel I am more at a risk doing multiple reps then even single rep workouts. I guess I can see it both ways however. Anyone have studies on this. Most of the injuries I have witnessed in weightroom are when something tries to rep out a max or a percentage close to their max. I have heard horror stories though of going for maxes though. Just dont really believe it. Most of those people put way to much weigh on the bar. Sure if your current max is 225. And you put 600pnd on the bar and have a bad spotter you might get hurt. Thoughts.

Timothy,

I was just wondering when powerlifters were going to introduce steel armour into the sport to help get the weight up?

Also, the the point I made about reps on 80% was in line with the discussion. Train on whatever reps you like. But take note that Ted Arcidi did do a set of 20 reps (bench) on 495 pounds about 2 weeks before he benched 700 pounds. He obviously did not find such an intensity detrimental to his performance or prowess as a man.

In agreement with coolColJ, your capacity to achieve reps on a given percentage of your maximum does depend on whether you train at a lower intensity. One guy who could outbench me by 30kgs for a single (190kg to 160kg at the time), could not match me for reps on 100kg. Whereas I had long trained mostly around (60-80%), he always trained above (80%). But even he could do more than 5 reps on 80%.

Spartucus I was referring to david w post. Sorry I wasnt replying to you there.