Question Regarding Tempo Work

Expert Discussion Planning and Periodization
1

Haven’t checked in on these forums in a long time and it doesn’t seem like there’s much activity anymore. Hopefully someone is still reading.

I’m a lacrosse player, getting older now and mostly just train to be as athletic as possible.

The other day I introduced tempo runs again after not doing them for a long time. I did 3 sets of 5x100m with 50m walk between reps and 100m walk between sets. I didn’t time any of the runs but I’m sure I kept the speed <70%. It was tough though, definitely didn’t feel like a session that could be considered low intensity / recovery. I remember reading that the last sprint should feel as easy as the first one and that was not the case for me.

How should I modify these sessions?

Slow down the runs? If I go too slow it becomes difficult to maintain sprint mechanics
Longer walks between reps/sets?
Shorter distances?

I don’t think the volume was too high, I remember doing 2k back in the day. Could just be out of shape from no lacrosse due to the pandemic. After tempo work I performed some full body circuits (shoulders, abs, upper body). Twice a week I’m doing sprint sessions followed by heavier full body lifts. I might just schedule a day off after these tempo sessions until they become easier.

Thanks

2

The issue with the session was possibly volume related. Might have been best to ease back in with lower volume and work up more gradually to 1500m. The other consideration is you need to time since you did not really know for sure the runs were below 70% without it. Start with a conservative estimate for 100m on grass then take 60-70%.

3

Thanks.
Maybe it was a higher percent than I thought since I’m comparing track speed to grass speed.
I’ll slow down a bit and stick with low volumes for now. Looking back, I actually only did 1400 and called it because intensity felt too high.

4

Maybe just do 800m for a week or two and monitor the times. It’s okay to be closer to 60-65% now and then later both higher volume and faster times can be used (though not fast). I’d recommend just changing one aspect at a time (either volume or percentage of speed) or if both are done do so VERY gradually.

5

Will do, thanks for your help.

What would you consider the minimum frequency for tempo runs? I don’t think I’ll be at the track more than 3 days per week and if I have two speed days, that only leaves one for tempo … not sure if that is too infrequent. From what I remember, recommended was 3x per week.

6

At least once/week and another day could be some combination of bodyweight circuits, midsection circuits, medicine ball circuits, bike tempo, pool tempo, etc.

7

Reduce number of reps in each set to say 3. I find volume per set is the most tiring aspect.

Maintain quality of movement, ie don’t do a shuffle/jog. Go from say 3 sets of 3x100 to 4x3x100, then up to sets of 4 etc.

Frequency of tempo :
I think people need to do at least 2 days per week of any training component to improve, one is not enough. Is your lacrosse more sprint or endurance orientated ? If it is speed you could replace a sprint session with an extra tempo day.
I count tennis as a speed day for this reason.

8

I use this simple progression with my athletes.

First block:
Day 1: 2x3x100 90/4, 2x3x100 90/4, 2x4x100 90/4, 2x4x100 90/4

Day 2: 2x4x100 90/4, 2x4x100 90/4 2x5x100 90/4, 2x5x100 90/4

Second block:
Day 1: 2x4x100 90/4, 3x3x100 90/4, 2x5x100 90/4, 2x5x100 90/4

Day 2: 6x200 r3, 6x200 r230, 6x200 r2, 6x200 r2

9

What is “90/4” and “r#”?

10

Hard to say if it’s more sprint or endurance. I play indoor lacrosse so it’s a lot shorter/quicker than on a large field. Shifts are 30s-60s and rest on the bench is usually similar. Right now I’m not playing though because every league is shutdown.

11

r = rest. 90sec btw reps, 4mins btw sets.

12

So that is significantly more rest than the 50m/100m walks.
What would r230 mean?

13

Rest 2:30. It depends how fast you are walking - it’s possible to walk very slowly over 100m in 4mins. What Charlie listed is only guidelines the ext tempo runs must be extremely easy otherwise you run the risk of having a negative impact on the speed days. Gotta ask yourself what’s the purpose of using the tempo runs.

I’m actually using some tempo runs in gpp but once I hit spp I’m doing little to no tempo work.

For example - I been doing tons of ext tempo over the past 4 months therefore I’m not doing much once I start gpp this year.

Mon/Fri: Hills, Jumps, Throws
Wed: Throws, Jumps
Sat: Ext tempo (low vol) 600-1000m

14

I’m guessing you’re a thrower based on that schedule? How does lifting fit in there?

15

No. 60/100m I haven’t lifted weights really since Jan. Weights could be done two ways - see below…

A:
Mon/Fri: squat/bench
Wed: clean, rdl, row

B:
Mon/Fri: lower wts
Wed/Sat: upper wts

16

Interesting your only sprints are hills.

I’m currently doing something like this:

Day 1/3: Sprints, occasionally jumps, Lifts
Day 2: Tempo, Lifts

Day 1 Lifts being Nordic Ham Curls, Floor Press, Inverted Rows
Day 2 Lifts being higher rep circuits
Day 3 Lifts being RFESS, Wtd Dips, Pullups

Might make some tweaks based on what I’ve read in this thread

17

I posted the first block of gpp. The past several months the focus was on developing aerobic capacity now starting next week I’ll move on to developing alactic capacity while using a fair amount of hill sprints and jumps uphill. Using the hill early on will also make things a little safer by limiting my output as I transition to doing speed work after a long layoff. After about 8 weeks of alactic capacity work I’ll probably into alactic power that’s where the fun starts at least for me.

Keep the weights simple…

Day 1/3: squat, press, rdl, row
Day 2: Aux work

18

That is simple for me right now.
Limited by equipment. No rack or barbell. I have an axle which is okay for pressing but an injured finger doesn’t allow me to grip it well.

Farmers handles
Adjustable Thick DBs
Sled (push or pull)
T Handle for Swings
Dip Station
Axle
Flat Bench

That’s what I’m working with.

19

Can’t do deadlifts or pound some rev lunges?

20

Haven’t checked in on these forums in a long time and it doesn’t seem like there’s much activity anymore. Hopefully someone is still reading.

The forums have been around for 20 years and sometimes they are more active than other times.

I’m a lacrosse player, getting older now and mostly just train to be as athletic as possible.

You are getting older? Why don’t you change that? LOL. We are all aging and trick is to mitigate the parts that accelerate the process…

The other day I introduced tempo runs again after not doing them for a long time. I did 3 sets of 5x100m with 50m walk between reps and 100m walk between sets. I didn’t time any of the runs but I’m sure I kept the speed <70%. It was tough though, definitely didn’t feel like a session that could be considered low intensity / recovery. I remember reading that the last sprint should feel as easy as the first one and that was not the case for me.

[b]Charlie used to say there was the theory and method but you start where you are at.

You’ve started with a very large volume and distance with zero progression. You have set yourself up to fail without really knowing how to perform tempo.

A few ideas to think about.

Based on your comments running is not foreign to you. You might start with 6 x 100 meters walk back 100 meters. I can do this fairly easily now as it allows me to maintain proper posture because I am getting lots of rest. As soon as I chop the rest in half as I used to do it’s significantly more difficult. This is true to almost anyone initially. Why I like to start this way is it’s important to run properly. One of the key reasons we practice tempo is practice relaxed running with excellent mechanics.

Another trick we used to use is mixing butt kicks into the mix with exercises on each end of the 100m distance.
or
butt kicks down and shake back which is like a jog with as much upper body relaxation as possible dropping your arms and shoulders
or
tempo in the pool
or
tempo on the bike
or
run 50 meters / walk 50 meters start with 6 x 50m and if it goes well do a second set use a strict 5 minute recovery off your feet, shaking legs and not doing anything but rest and stretch
or
tripling over 100 meters and tempo pace back use 6 x 100m to begin

Tempo can be modified many ways.[/b]

How should I modify these sessions?

Slow down the runs? If I go too slow it becomes difficult to maintain sprint mechanics
Longer walks between reps/sets?
Shorter distances?

[b]Here is a general rule to use for tempo. Initially, I always give more rest to set whom ever to succeed. If that doesn’t work, I shorten the distance. Ideally, you use x distance for rest but if x distance is too little then lengthen the rest within reason and be consistent and keep track and progress over time if able. As a person gets more fit you can run tempo faster and do longer rest or slow tempo down and shorten the rest.

I think lots of people get confused about tempo because they run tempo alone without knowing what to do or he or she is not clear on the speed of the runs in relative terms to ones fitness.

Masters athletes are different than athletes because maintaining fitness, strength and health without injury is an ongoing challenge. It’s difficult for athletes and they are young and healthy. Aging requires a whole different set of rules and you need to be more conservative and add in TONS of regenerative tools to just stay on par. [/b]

I don’t think the volume was too high, I remember doing 2k back in the day. Could just be out of shape from no lacrosse due to the pandemic. After tempo work I performed some full body circuits (shoulders, abs, upper body). Twice a week I’m doing sprint sessions followed by heavier full body lifts. I might just schedule a day off after these tempo sessions until they become easier.

Try the push up sit up workout and that will give you some idea how fit you are. Run 100 meters and do 15 push ups, run 100 meters and do 20 sit-ups and repeat to 10 sets. ( tempo speed) and if it was easy repeat another set. Vary the sit ups as per the muti position sit-ups I do in GPP. ( you can start with 1 set of 6 x 100m or do 2 (6x100m)

Thanks