We have, we named numerous people in the soccer world and sports world that lift and are the most successful athletes in their respective sports and you rebuttle with the same things over and over. Your not winning your being stubborn by saying the same thing over and over, we gave you names of great player and people with great speed that lift and you repeatedly just say no its not true. So dont give us that BS that we have come back with no reply.
For sprinting, is that a joke, the best times ever run were by weight lifters. For soccer when you and another person go for the ball, he will knock you on your ass and leave you in the dust because hes stronger and has better acc. because of weight training. Its a proven fact that it works, you just choose not to accept it. Again as for sprints thats a joke, the fastes split or sprints ever run were by weightlifting sprinters.
As well soccer still is and never will be the real football
We have, we named numerous people in the soccer world and sports world that lift and are the most successful athletes in their respective sports and you rebuttle with the same things over and over. Your not winning your being stubborn by saying the same thing over and over, we gave you names of great player and people with great speed that lift and you repeatedly just say no its not true. So dont give us that BS that we have come back with no reply.
You have to quote me. Just like I quoted you. Take out the quotes of my posts what you don’t think is right, I will try and respond just like I have done responded to your posts/quotes.
Like this…
For soccer when you and another person go for the ball, he will knock you on your ass and leave you in the dust, because hes stronger and has better acc. because of weight training.
Ok, you put the soccerball on the centre spot of a soccer pitch. From that spot you have both Kim Collins and Justin Gatlin 25m away, Who gets to the ball first from a standing start???. The 140lb’er or the weight lifter. From the races I have seen this year, the stick thin, 140lb’er Commonwealth and World Champion gets to the ball first quicker than the weightlifter. Why, because that guy is producing the better power output to weight ratio.
I have another one, your 70 minutes into a game. You have Lance Armstrong & Dwain Chambers. Who gets to the ball first from 25m away in the 70th minute, taking into account Dwain Chambers can’t even take another step becuase of the mass hes had to carry around the field???..
Now quote me on my last posts and come back and question the idea’s I have put forward and why there wrong…
You called my name - now, why don’t you answer my posts?
(By the way Gatlin beat Collins to win the indoor world-championships over 60-meters this year. For all I know you where a member of the audience.)
From your training description I would be surprised if you could crack a sub 50 second 400 meter time. VERY surprised. I bet any of the sprinters you have mentioned could run sub 50 in tempo runs 
You called my name - now, why don’t you answer my posts?
I have answered all your posts, you don’t answer mine that is the problem.
Maybe I was cutting off my nose despite my face mentioning 400m. But what could them sprinters run leading upto/and over 800m-8miles???.. They wouldn’t even figure over them distances (Soccer distances).
Take a quote out of my last post/s and put ahead your case why its wrong. Tell me why a guy built like Dwain Chambers (Weight Training) could be a better at soccer than guys who don’t lift such as guys like Kim Collins & Lance Armstrong who has a 84.6 VO2 max Lung Capacity, a Max power output of 600 watts at VO2 and Lactate Threshold HR: at 178…
Thoughts…
Why do you think guys who lift, Dwain Chambers, Bernard Williams, Justin Gatlin etc… Why do these guys have an advantage over guys with better lung capacitys and better power outputs like Kim Collins who don’t lift weights???..
Thoughts…
You have Lance Armstrong & Dwain Chambers. Who gets to the ball first from 25m away in the 70th minute, taking into account Dwain Chambers can’t even take another step becuase of the mass hes had to carry around the field???..
Thoughts…
Answer all 3 of them questions, and tell me why weight training will help me out with my soccer, taking into account the last 3 quotes I have just mentioned.
Why would I want to train like Dwain Chambers when I could train more like Kim Collins and give myself a better power output???. Why would I want to train like a Bernard Williams when I could train more like Lance Armstrong and give myself a better lung capacity and latic acid threshold???. Afterall, its you guys believing Olympic lifters, Weightlifters are the “Real deal”.
Could you guys please answer me them questions and back up your points. If you can’t, I have won. Please no carcastic comments, “OK, you won, your right and never wrong”. No, what you mean’t to say was, I really won this battle. So back up your stuff please,
I haven’t even got started yet…
Rock N Roll,
First of all. If soccer is your sport, you are correct, you should not train like a Sprinter - This includes Kim Collins. The same scenario you gave above about Dwain in the 70th minute, will also hold true for im Collins.
However, it doesnot mean we cannot learn from them.
Also, - since when do you ever run at the same pace for the entire 90 minutes of a football match???
Soccer is about being able to do short quick bursts of speed repeatedly with minimal rest. Therefore, if you are quicker than the player you are marking, you are going to have an advantage.
However, if the player you are marking is really fast, but, you only have good endurance. After a couple of his runs, you will be struggling, as you will have to give 100% and still not catch him.
See where I am going (please see the topic on Speed Reserve).
Again. Who is talking about Bodybuilding?? No-one - we are talking about the non-specific lifting of weights.
Again. Speed to endurance is a one way street.
AC Milan - has just recently spent millions on developing Milan Labs. Each player gets individually monitored and tested, so they have their own individual training program - which includes a weights program. They are the European Champions League Winners, their injuries have been reduced by 90% - but, they must be wrong.
Ben Johnson - 173-178lbs
Sprinters aren’t as big as you think. They are about 5% BF, and the TV makes them look bigger than they actually are.
Finally, when deciding on a training plan for a soccer player WATCH THE PLAYERS AND NOT THE BALL.
We have put forward alot of points, but, you merely dismiss them and give us stupid scenarios.
If you choose not to accept the wealth of knowledge at this site, then why do you come here, clearly you know it all already???
When you are ready to enter a proper discussion I will reply, until then, I am with xlr8 - everyone should just ignore RnR.
Haven’t you got it yet Oorwullie? Rock N Roll never stops during a game. He has the burners on the whole time.
“Whatchuyouknowboutacceleratingforthewholegame?”
As for you RnR, of course you are winning the argument, you are the only one who thinks there exist one in the first place!
I think I have come a long way in proving my point that there are better means of training for soccer than lifting weights, much better ways. Read through my posts again, I think I have put my points across pretty well.
First of all. If soccer is your sport, you are correct, you should not train like a Sprinter - This includes Kim Collins.
But I’d rather train like a Kim Collins, than a “Weighttraining” Dwain Chambers, Bernard Williams etc, get me.
The same scenario you gave above about Dwain in the 70th minute, will also hold true for Collins
It wouldn’t hold true for Kim Collins in the 70th minute, Kim Collins isn’t carrying an extra 80lbs with him around the field. Thus he would be able to keep going on alot longer than a weightlifter. That is a fact. If Dwain Chambers could squat 1000lbs, his legs still wouldn’t be able holdout an entire game because of his bodyweight.
However, it doesnot mean we cannot learn from them.
I have taken a few aspects of sprint training and applied it to my game. I believe Kim Collins is more of a Plyo guy, thus no mass, no feeling of heaviness from weights and just the sense of gaining pure power.
Also, - since when do you ever run at the same pace for the entire 90 minutes of a football match???
Depends on the pace you want to set. Your not going to be able to run at 100% all the time, true, but put me up against a weightlifter or who trains like a sprinter with added mass on a soccer field and Pound 4 Pound, I would blow him away over any distance, Pound 4 Pound.
Soccer is about being able to do short quick bursts of speed repeatedly with minimal rest. Therefore, if you are quicker than the player you are marking, you are going to have an advantage.
VERY VERY TRUE. The thing is that comment you just said cannot be achieved by weightlifting alone. IN FACT to achieve short quick bursts of speed repeatedly with minimal rest, from my experience you have to more endurance work than strength training. Burst repeats, you need a good lung capacity… Squats, Deads, Oly lifts don’t achieve a good lung capacity.
However, if the player you are marking is really fast, but, you only have good endurance. After a couple of his runs, you will be struggling, as you will have to give 100% and still not catch him.
Its give & take. I could go on for ages replying to this. Lets keep it short, If you have good endurance and are super quick, your going places in soccer and you will come close to being complete player in terms of pace. By super quick where talking a 4.3-4.5 40 dash, by good endurance where talking about being a box-box player.
Weighttraining isn’t going to give you good endurance. Marathon training isn’t going to give you a 4.3 40 dash neither. Go out like I have and find the perfect solution for both and don’t overrate weighttraining.
Again. Who is talking about Bodybuilding?? No-one - we are talking about the non-specific lifting of weights.
Oh no one is talking about bodybuilding, I’m just saying half of them guys could compete in Mr Olympian and give Ronnie Coleman a run for his money.
AC Milan - has just recently spent millions on developing Milan Labs. Each player gets individually monitored and tested, so they have their own individual training program - which includes a weights program. They are the European Champions League Winners, their injuries have been reduced by 90% - but, they must be wrong.
These labs won’t make a much of a difference in improving a player, from the times they didn’t have this facility.
Sprinters aren’t as big as you think. They are about 5% BF, and the TV makes them look bigger than they actually are.
I compare them to Kim Collins, they tower over him.
Finally, when deciding on a training plan for a soccer player WATCH THE PLAYERS AND NOT THE BALL.
i.e Maintain 100% concentration from the start to the last ball being kicked. Good advice. I’ll remember that a little more.
If you choose not to accept the wealth of knowledge at this site, then why do you come here, clearly you know it all already???
Because people have taken sprinting and put far, far too much emphasis on it beieving its the way to train as a soccer player. Lets put it like this, if you want to get into Leeds United and train with them at Thorpe Arch, one of the 1st tests they put you through is a bleep test. If you can’t achieve a level 18 or over, you dont figure. Please none of the, “Well if they trained like sprinters, they would be higher in the league” bullshit, it doesn’t work that way. Weighttraining will not get you to level 18, in fact putting more weight on your upperbody, lowerbody is a sin in trying to improve your bleep test. Its just like shooting yourself in the foot.
I know in the long term, down the line of a long game, weight training can hurt you. I have provided you with so many examples of this. Where talking soccer, not trying to win the 100m in Athens.
Peace…
Rock N Roll, that was a good summation of your views, and no doubt they are valid to a point. What many here are trying to say is: What do you do beyond that point?
What do you do when you plateau and you have no tools in your arsenal to take you higher?
I repeat my statement that you have showed no real grasp of sprinting, and therefore can not comment on its usefulness for soccer.
You know what has worked for you and maybe it will take you all the way to the top, but don’t claim that this is the way to go for everyone else.
RnR,
Clearly you have been missing the point that we have been trying to put across to you. Clearly you feel that you already know everything.
No-one here has ever said that you should train like a sprinter or a weightlifter. Clearly to do so is going to effect how you play.
You should train like a soccer player - this can and should include weight training. However, this has to be taken into account with all the other training variables, speed, endurance, skill, tactics, etc.
Agreed lifting weights is not going to help you endurance, etc, as you correctly said (well it can if you go short to long, but, that is another discussion).
What we have been trying to put across that weight training (and therefore strength, not non functional mass) is important in soccer. In terms of speed. injury prevention, etc.
Not to mention the ability to hold off other players when you have the ball.
I could go on,
but, you are missing the point totally.
We will leave you to go about your own training - unless, you are willing to listen to our suggestions/comments, then why bother coming here.
I have been very patient with you as has everyone else - but, you are reading things into our posts that just aren’t there.
Maybe if you spent time reading through site, you would get a better understanding of what we are talking about. (This has been mentioned before) Aswell as reading CFTS and Speed Trap.
PS - no top level players, continues at the same speed for 90 mins. When watching a game (use your Sky Remote, go to player cam and watch what he does during a game) I can guarantee he is not at the same speed for the entire match)
What do you do when you plateau and you have no tools in your arsenal to take you higher?
For the most dedicated athletes on earth, there are no such things as plateau’s.
No-one here has ever said that you should train like a sprinter or a weightlifter. Clearly to do so is going to effect how you play.
Right, this is how it goes, I ain’t stupid. A first time visitor to this website which ever sport he has decided to take up, looks through the forums and see’s the #'s Dwain Chambers & co can lift in every exercise.
Ohhh, he says to himself as he looks through the forums’, Dwain Chambers can squat 700lbs, he can bench almost 500lbs, Shall I try to do the same???, Yes I will, because he is FAST, I want to be that fast, he must be doing something right. YEAH he shouts’, I play soccer, now I’m gonna go away and keep lifting & lifting until I reach them #'s.
When a teenager comes on this site, they want to be as FAST as Dwain Chambers, thus they believe they have to lift them #'s… This site is dedicated to sprinting, there not going to go away and have the training regime of darts player are they, get real. When they see a guy sprinting in the 100m, they know what it takes to get bodies like that, they ain’t stupid.
Bloody hell, you don’t believe me, I see it EVERYDAY with my own eyes in the gym, my team mates bursting blood vessels squatting, benching etc and I still blow them away from 0-20m-30m, I’m 147 and trust me these guys are quick and strong. I think to myself, Yeah you can squat 400lbs???.. So what, can you use that extra strength, that extra muscle efficently and use it quickly (power) for real-world purposes???. You know what, lol, strap a set of ankle weights around your legs, lay on your back, and throw your legs out as fast as possible for 60 seconds with good form. That will give you a better time from 0-20m and a better leg frequency than the guys who squat 400lbs, All day long. I think you guys would laugh at the speed I can accelerate from a standing start as opposed to the “Heavy guys” who weight train and look like bodybuilders.
Put it like this, with my speed-strength program, I will let a guy squat 400-500lbs bursting his blood vessels. I will lay on my back and do a few sets with my ankle weight thing, and I will bet my mortgage I could beat him to 20m.
PS - no top level players, continues at the same speed for 90 mins. When watching a game (use your Sky Remote, go to player cam and watch what he does during a game) I can guarantee he is not at the same speed for the entire match).
Again, depends on the pace you want to set, no one can run at 100%, I respect that. BUT, one of the reasons they can’t hold onto a higher pace throughout 90mins is becuase they haven’t conditioned there bodies in training to do that. An elite marathon runner could hold onto a 12mph-15mph pace easily throughout 90mins, put this against Thierry Henry who walks and trots about 75mins of a game and doesn’t even cover a mile within 90mins, there is no comparison.
Huh?
RnR,
Everyone has been quick to say that there are many roads to Rome. However, new paths usually stem from old ones and up to this point in history the wheel has only been invented once. Kim Collins may not lift weights but, and I’m saying this without knowing anything about his training program, I’m sure he follows 99% of the basic training ideas as other elite sprinters and that you are about as far away from his training program as you are from Dwain Chambers. I’m sure the vast majority of elite soccer players also all follow similar ideas as other elite soccer players. If you have come up with a revolutionary new way to train soccer players, fantastic, but I’m sure you can understand the forum’s skepticism that the secret to soccer training that everyone has missed is a hard cardiovascular workout on a bike.
For the most dedicated athletes on earth, there are no such things as plateau’s.
Huh?
What is so Huh???, about it?
That is a quote from the late great Bruce Lee…
Rock N Roll,
Slightly better.
Again - who said training like a body builder???
No-one, in fact no-one said train like Dwain.
Each athlete is a individual and their training programs should reflect their own strengths and weaknesses. Also what works for them.
e.g. Ben, had poor form in Olympic style lifts, so Charlie decided to drop them. Weights worked for Ben.
However, you have other athletes (Kim, Carl, etc), where more plyometric and med-ball work was needed - as this is what they responded to.
The key is that they were all doing high intensity work to strenthen themselves (organism strength). just different variations.
If people are training with weights incorrectly - you cannot brand all weight training as wrong and bad.
David W, would be able to confirm but, I believe there is a study that links 40m times to bench press performance (there are alot of factors involved, so please do not go off on one).
e.g. Dave Boston (Wide Receiver for Chargers) weights 257lbs and can run 40 in the very low 4s.
I believe 40m time is more dependent on a low BF than actual bodyweight.
However, that is not soccer training.
Proper weight training is beneficial to a soccer player - again read proper weight training. Not all weight training is the same. You clearly have got the wrong idea of what we are referring to.
For some unknown reason you keep mentioning body building.
Finally, if your mates are training like body builders - where is their coach???
PS - Leg Frequency has also been discussed at the site.
PPS - Why is everything such a secret??
Again - who said training like a body builder???
Sprinters DON’T train like bodybuilders, but they sure come close to looking like them.
No-one, in fact no-one said train like Dwain.
You don’t get it, read my last post about the newbie who wants to achieve Dwains speed, I ain’t repeating myself or pasting it here.
David W, would be able to confirm but, I believe there is a study that links 40m times to bench press performance (there are alot of factors involved, so please do not go off on one).
I was once told the opposite and stand by it. You may think differnently but until someone beats me in the 40 or on the soccer pitch who have huge bench’s and upperbodys, I’m gonna keep by my Kim Collins figure. I have always believed a superstrong lowerbody with little mass on your upperbody, will produce your best 40 times and acceleration.
e.g. Dave Boston (Wide Receiver for Chargers) weights 257lbs and can run 40 in the very low 4s.
Lets keep on topic. 257lbs???.. No, this is soccer, not Sumo wrestling. What would I give to have a low 40???.. I’ll tell you the last thing I would give, a bloody 110lb increase in weight. That would do wonders for my endurance.
What time does he have over 60yds, Ohhh, nobody knows, he keeled over at 50yds and died of heart failure, lol.
For some unknown reason you keep mentioning body building.
Finally, if your mates are training like body builders - where is their coach???
I never said they were training like bodybuilders, some just look like them. I just said they were lifting the same amount of weight as a sprinter i.e Ben Johnson, Dwain Chambers etc and it is has a detremental effect on there soccer.
About the David Boston thing, this will be my last comment here, I guess you didnt see him bitch slap the saftey, catch the pass then outsprint a 160lb 6’ corner for 70 yards…nuff said
RnR,
You are not worth it.
Clearly you already know everything, and CF, CT, CP, IK, DT, LS, etc, etc, are all wrong. They have coached athletes at the WORLD level, but, what would they know.
This is also my last post on the topic.