Leg weights

absolutely :cool:

the weights are just some general work. Why isnt the focus on how to organize your top speed work, and the best way to improve your top speed, accel., speed endurance? instead i see a lot of threads talking so much about strength vs. threads about speed.

Agreed. Very little talk of progressing accel, speed, and speed endurance.

You never take full advantage of releasing your inner chi, lr1400?

No, I am not a practitioner of eastern mysticism.

The only inner release I have OR need is when I bust my nut!

Then the take away message for you is… There is far more power to be had with the air we breathe than busting out a huge sticky load.

Dirty man.

why would cf say no atg squats then if they seem so good?

i cant recall him saying that at any point, perhaps i missed it but unless someone can provide a link or a quote… i doubt it.

regardless… who cares really lol. you’re gonna get more benefit out of doing FEF runs, flying sprints, short SE work, etc etc and discussing those things will lead to much more improvements than squatting deeper than parallel will.

Honestly, you think bolt squats ass to ground? LOL. or tyson? he does a whole bunch of random sh*t, you honestly wonder how he got more developed physically over the years. and powell? he doesnt even squat…

But in general, to sum up the topic of discussion, squatting ass to ground will lead to better improvements than the traditional gym parallel squat will, but a main reason for that is cause the traditional gym parallel squat is nothing like a REAL parallel squat. to add to it, squat a bit below parallel, add in RDLs, hypers, and some body weight glute hams, and you’re fine for overall strength/posterior chain strength.

depends entirely on level of flexibility and lever lengths. I have had great athletes who have huge issues getting ATG due to long femurs and short torso’s. Puts them in a terrible position to try to keep bar centered. In those cases, I would rather see higher squat where proper mechanics are not altered. Most guys I know who squat deep and heavy have had knee issues, shoulder issues, and back issues. Granted, these are powerlifters who lift a lot heavier than most. I just take it on a case by case basis. I have a RB who will squat super deep with 475 lbs for sets of 5 while I have other kid’s who can"t get below parallel to save their lives.

ive never actually seen cf say no atg squats either, i just saw it here and trusted hemann’s word on it

No, I’m not talking about explosive isometrics. The pause is not performed in the parralell position (although, that WOULD be explosive isometrics. But it would also be the opposite of what I’m suggesting to do.) What you often see with explosive power athletes, is that some use the ‘puase’ between reps technique. In other words, you pause in the standing position AFTER the rep is completed. You pause for 3 to 5 seconds (where thigh and hip muscles get a comparative rest) and THEN you proceed with the next repetition. That is, lowering the weight back down, and pushing back again, without pauseing in the parralel position.

Muarice Green’s technique was slightly different. He would puase in the bottom position of a deep squat. But that puase at the bottom, was still a comparative rest for hips and thighs. For in the deep squat, your thighs are resting on your calves at the bottom. Hence, he would use ‘lighter’ weights. After pausing at the bottom for about 4-5 seconds (to turn of the stretch reflex) he would then explode upwards - using great neural firing to muscles to blatantly overcome inertia. (Wihout stretch reflex assistance.)

What I’m talking about however, is just the general pausing between reps (in a resting position.) The point of ‘resting’ between reps, is so that the fast twitch fibers increase their contribution to the exercises. The fast fibers take a little longer to recover, and so you some times need to pause between reps (in comparative resting position.) This has been discussed by people such as Charles Poliquin. (Who is great for science, but not so great when it comes to exercise selection for track & field athletes. His speciality is strength & hypertrophy for off-season field/team sport athletes. Also great on rehab and nutrition etc.)

A guy from T-nation, also spoke of how there are many hip-hyper extension exercises (such as your hip thrusts) that have far more gluteal activation than squats (which are hip extension and not hip-hyper extension.). However, even HE, who eventually reached impressive numbers in weighted hip thrusts, never reported that he ran a fast sprint time. He did suggest a sprinter should include wieghted hip thrusts.
But for me, I don’t think even they contribute much in the way of speed.

I’m still not interpreting correctly, your point on degenerative effect on tedons.

Are you saying that weight training strengthens the tendons TOO much compared to the muscles? Are you saying that weight training takes some of the elastic properties away from the tendons? Are you saying that it is not good for a sprinter to get their tendons really strong (if it interfere’s negatively with muscle power outputt?, during a sprint.) Or was your orthapedist suggesting something else?

At the momment, I don’t really see where strong tendons (particularly the achilles) would be a problem?

And if it IS a problem… Was you saying that weight training (reps) makes that problem worse, or decreases the problem. Or that only isometric resisted holds help to eradicate the problem?

Heres my take on why charlie, and even bigger faster stronger have stated that parallel squats are most effective. (charlie has said “half squats” which to me means either parallel or 90)

Compare the angles of the legs when accelerating. When the toe is in contact with the ground, the knee is never bent more than 90 degrees. Therefore, developing range of motion strength beyond that point is less necessary. However, if one were to always squat at 90 (3-4 inches above parallel) and -just one time perhaps- they were to start their acceleration in practice or a meet… and their leg surpassed 90 degrees and went closer to parallel-- their (hamstrings, most likely) would be at much more of a risk for injury because the muscles have not been developed properly beyond 90 degrees. I have actually witnessed this with several athletes. Torn ligaments in the knees and hamstring pulls and tears are terribly common with track athletes not squatting to proper depth!!

With that, it would be very difficult to mistakenly start accelerating with the legs bent beyond parallel, so I would strongly reccomend doing parallel squats. BFS has always sung their praises, but I know a lot of people take what BFS says with a grain of salt…

What where these ghetto workouts…?:smiley:

I with Maurice Greene. The bottom of a deadlift/sticking point of a squat, has the far greater strength and power if you hold it there. Don’t you agree?.

Again, in a resting position (finish of a deadlift/starting point of the back squat) your not training your body to recruit the greater amount of motor units as opposed to a starting point hold (Deadlift) off the floor, a sticking point or at the near bottom (squat).

I would imagine, depending on the weight used, he has increased the intensity of the exercise considerably. Even if his thighs were resting on his calves at the bottom?, its still more of a considerable feat, than standing upright with the weight just on the shoulders.

lifting is not meant to be specific to your sprinting. Bolt and tyson both use machines and they do some stuff (i can guarantee) that would make you wtf? when you see.

But as I was saying, the point of lifting is to provide a stimulus and strengthen the neccesary muscles. deep squatting does more to strengthen the posterior chain than parallel squats do, however, if your parallel squat got to a certain level… then you’d have enough posterior chain strength anyway, and atg squatting wouldnt make much difference…

In my next GPP, im planning on using both… and progressing both.

Bret Contreras.

True. But in terms of activating/strengthening the glutes, there top $. Many people, Bret Contreras among them, regard glutes to be the No.1 muscle used in sprinting (for me its the core strengthened the RIGHT way) but I’m in the minority.

Talking of times. What about these “fast” shotputters?, Olympic Bulgarian weightlifters?, bodybuilders (Kevin Levrone) etc etc… Since 2003 I’ve been here, I heard people saying this, saying they can hang, I ain’t seen NOTHING to tell me this is true. There talking game too.

one without the other. I think people miss the boat when they speak of just isolating this or that. Being able to work through hip extension in a synchronous manner is important, but you can’t ignore the kinetic chain. If you have ever done Charlies tri set for glute and lower back then you know he was not trying to work one independent of the other. I honestly think it all goes back to organism strength. Squatting the house isn’t in itself a great predictor. Some people need weights more than others. I look at strengthening from a full body, joint by joint philosophy. Try not to have weak links that can break down.

You are miss-interpreting me. I’m not talking about ‘pause holds’. I’m not talking about isometrics. I’m not talking about creating strength in sticking points.

I’m talking about RESTING between repetitions.
Not PAUSING. RESTING. Doing nothing at all. RESTING. And then doing another repetition.

When you REST (e,g. do NOTHING), between repetitions, the next repetition can be performed with more power than if u didnt rest between reps. Your fast twith fibers are able to fire more powerfully, than when the work is preceeded by other work.

This has got nothing to do with what you are talkign about. You are talking about isometrci pauses between concentric and eccentric work. What you are talking baout is building strength in sticking points.

You are actually discussing the absolute opposite point to what I brought up.

I’m talking about doing nothing between reps. Rest in the standing position (REST! e.g; NO WORK), for about 3 to 5 seconds, and then lower the bar, and without pausing, squat back up again. And then REST, in the standing psotion for several seconds before your next rep.

The REST, prevents your fast twitch fibers trying to adjust to behaving like intermediate twitch fibers, because they are not being constantly worked, because of the REST between reps.

Many strength coaches, including Charles Poliquin have said this is a superior way of training the fast fibers. (And better than pausing in an isometric position, where the fibers don’t get any rest.)

The REST between reps method is NOT about building strength in the resting position. You can’t build strength when resting. But you can allow the fast fibers some down time before their next big push. That’s the point.

Where-as if you hold isometricly in a parralel position (not what i would recomend), you are thining the envelope too much and not getting high ‘peaks’ and rests in between.

I don’t mean to rant at you, but I want you to understand what I meant.


crap morning, still limping on my foot from operation I had,… gonna take a chill pill.

A highly successful university football team near where i live have been doing squats similar, i believe, to what you are talking about goose. They called them “breather squats”

They would do a rep, and then stand with the weight on their shoulders and take 3 deep breaths of air in between each rep. I heard this through a grapevine, but apparently they were having just tremendous results with them.

They claimed the results came from raising the testosterone levels in your body and the extra oxygen allowed to the muscles. I have tried them personally, and I would agree that I could do more weight each set/rep. But extended results beyond that I never really figured out. I just stopped doing them after awhile. :confused: