In heavy lactic sessions on the track, lactic burn is not felt in certain leg muscles until 2-3minutes after fininshing a run. In the gym the burn can be apparent after 10-15 reps depending on the muscle group, and when the set has finished the burn quickly goes; the last set included. Why the difference?
I am wondering if blood lactic (plus H+ and lactate) which increases to peak levels after approx 3 minutes post exercise is taken up by certain muscles to such an extent more than other muscles; and this is only noticable after track due to the whole body being involved and more blood lactic resulting.
The best way to remove HLa+ buildup post-exercise, is to perform exercises up to 35-40% of your VO2 Max (ie. jogging, etc). This is the fastest way to decrease the concentration of HLa+ in the blood.
I know the exact feelings you describe Richard. There have been some British guys doing ‘lactic acid’ work with weights in the gym because of that feeling/theory. (they havent improved much!)
I maybe think its down to the fact that doing say a ham curl or bicep curl gets these feelings because the muscles are more isolated and have to work harder inducing these feelings faster, whereas when running its not the same consistent intensity on one individual muscle. Add to this that the forceful pumping of blood right through the legs when running, only after a minute or two you feel the burn when the blood is fully allowed to flood through the muscles.
There are some easy ways to get lactic on the track, a classic we have used is 5x250 with 5 min rec at almost 90%
5x200 with 5/4/3/2 min rec with the first 2 400m race pace
2x200 90sec first 200 flat out
basically run fast and cover distance and it will hurt! remember to be specific to the time of year or you will leave some energies on the track!
Tinsoldier, thank for the reply. I have a couple more qestions regarding your comments.
There have been some British guys doing ‘lactic acid’ work with weights in the gym because of that feeling/theory. (they havent improved much!)
I wonder if training this way for approx 10-15 reps has very limited lactic buffering and clearence adaption on the muscles, ie. even though lactic accumulates greatly, buffering capacity can only ever increase slightly, and 10-15 reps does not increase capillary density as much as track.
Therefore, the limiting factor in preventing lactic accumulation would be capillary density which would be gained best on the track. Just my theory.
I maybe think its down to the fact that doing say a ham curl or bicep curl gets these feelings because the muscles are more isolated and have to work harder inducing these feelings faster, whereas when running its not the same consistent intensity on one individual muscle. Add to this that the forceful pumping of blood right through the legs when running, only after a minute or two you feel the burn when the blood is fully allowed to flood through the muscles.
Is this in agreement to my statement, that the lactic that has entered the blood is returning to and flooding the muscles a couple of minutes after a run? If so, why is the burn felt in certain muscles more than others; the hams in my case?
Blood flow also acts as a transporter of heat. Increased capillary density of the type I fibers is a chronic adaptation to tempo training. An extended branch out of capillaries can allow blood flow to maintain the elevated body temperature longer during lifting and other intense training. This is important because many athletes doing intense CNS work have long rest periods. Such improvements in capillary density can be obtained through weight training by using body building methods, not just straight cardiovascular training. Moderate to low load weight training with short rest periods can create elevated lactate levels up to 20 M/mol.
Also hamstrings tend to have higher amounts of type II fiber, this will decrease the amount of capillary density resulting in less blood flow.
Also hamstrings tend to have higher amounts of type II fiber, this will decrease the amount of capillary density resulting in less blood flow.
Clemson, I agree with the hams often having more type II fibres, but my hams seem to be more lactic tolerant than most other muscles whilst actually exercising…maybe because of the nature of sprinting they contain many type IIA fibres and much greater capillary density than they would…but why would the ‘burn’ become apparent especially in my hams 2-3 mins post exercise?
Richard, to answer your question about the burning feeling being more in some muscles than others I would say is simply down to the fact that some muscles work harderthan others.
Its the hamstrings with me too cos my calves dont get involved enough and I tend to rely on my hams to get me through(some good ways of developing calves wuldnt go a miss here if anyone has ideas??) Also if you look at the hams they are a big muscles - lots of blood_ they are stretched over 2 joints and have to perform alot of work as a poor lever system making their actual action quite inefficient in how it operates therefore making the muscle work hard.
Tinsoldier, I understand the hams work harder than most muscles, but I’m still wondering how the feeling is only apparent after 2-3 minutes…I’m actually wondering if the feeling is caused another factor…and also whether it could be cramp. Also, the adaption to this feeling is very quick ie. 2-3 sessions…would lactic adaption be this quick?
Once your Blood Lactate levels have reached 10 M/mol you have reached your 100% VO2 Max this is with respect to aeorobic training.
I am surpsrised that during low to moderate weight training (of course with shorter rest periods tho) will yield a great lactate secretion response. Interesting.
Hello Richard, BTW Where are you from?)
Lactic adaptaion isnt as simple as doing 2 - 3 sessions and then you get to tolerate lactic. You need to build up to it and do it at varying speeds with varying distances to get an all round good base for faster removal of lactic acid. You will always have a build up but its about how fit you are to push through it, remove it quickly and accumulate as little as possible.
Normally we use a 3 month period from january time (ish) to march (ish) where we build up through the stages getting faster towards the season. Its no5t nice but it gives a really good base to work from for the summer and maintaining strength on the track through the summer is much easier.
Tinsoldier, I’m living in Liverpool at the moment. Are you from the UK then?
I should have been clearer about my comment on lactic adaption. What happens is, I get the strong burning/pain sensation in my hams (post exercise) for about 2 or 3 sessions and then it reduces to very little. As you say, lactic adaption would occur over several weeks and longer, whereas this sensation is resolved quickly, and although it could be related to the acute end of lactic adaption, I was wondering if there could be any other contributory factors.
The sessions are around 5x300 in 40 secs with 3 minutes rest in november/december. I am 27 but have only had one proper competitive season due to starting late and injury. I don’t feel my PBs are that realistic due to this but are: 50 5.8h, 100 11.10 electric (-1.0), 150 16.5h, 200 22.57 electric, 300 35.5 h. I also started training too fast too soon instead of gaining a solid base of GPP and longer sprints, which I am now taking seriously. Where are you from then?
You 5x300 sessions are ok but the reason you probably get used to them is the speed you are doing them at. Judging by your 100m time you should be able to at least do double that for 200m.
Try progressing the speed and doing less volume. Always maintain the speed element to it especially in more specific phases coming towards the season. I tend not to do more than 1000m in totol so that I can maintain the speed. You PBs look like a sprinter more than 400 so the distance should be less again and speed element even more important. I dont get over 1000m and Im a 400m runner!
5x300 3min REC progress to something like
5x250 5 min REC progressing to
2x200m 90sec 15 min
4 x 200 6/7/8 min REC
(for 400m runners)
there are so many ways to skin a cat! Just keep the speed, decent distance (200 - 350m) and dont make recoveries too long - you will get the lactic! Each month from January/February onwards you should be making the runs faster (changing recovery accordingly) getting up to racing speed for the summer May/June
