In my opinion you should not give up on sprinting yet. If you ran 48.12 in high school that shows you have great potential. Your foot speed doesn’t disappear at 23, that’s not over the hill. You just need to adjust your training. I had a PB at the age of 26 in the 60m using some of Charlie’s principle’s so you can too. Don’t give up man!
Hang in there.
When did you set that 200m PB?
What other races did you do apart from 400m this season?
How were they?
So you followed a Hart style program for the season?
When I got school,I ran an 800 besides the 400. My 200 pb was in high school as well. Our program is a lot similiar than harts. Here is what we are doing this week.Our big conference week is in 4 weeks followed by ncaas.
Sprinters Workout
April 16-22, 2007
800m:
Mon: 3 x 1000m w/10 min. rest (2:50-3:00/3:20-3:30)
Tues: OFF!!!
Wed: 6 x 400m w/5 min. rest (57-59/68-72)
Thurs: 45 min. run
Fri: Hills @ Reserves: 1 x 600m, 2 sets of 5 x 200m All-Out!
Sat: 30 min. hard run
AM Runs: 3 days this week, your choice, 20-30 min.
Long Sprints:
Mon: Sub 4/5 min. mile (600m, 400m, 300m, 200m, 100m)
Tues: OFF!!!
Wed: 300m @ 400m pace, 3 x 200m (24-25/27-28), 400m @100%
Thurs: Starts, curves
Fri: Hills @ Reserves: 1 x 400m, 1 sets of x200m, 1 set of 5x100m
Sat: 20 min. run
Short Sprints:
Mon: 5 x 150m w/5 min. rest (17-19/19-22)
Tues: OFF!!!
Wed: 300m @ 400m pace, 3 x 200m (24-25/27-28), 300m @ 100%
Thurs: Starts, curves
Fri: Hills @ Reserves: 1 x 300m, 2 sets of 5 x 100m
Sat: 15-20 min. run
Hi TKD!
I believe - to improve 200m and 400m times - you HAVE to do SPEED! This is the BIG problem that I experienced with Clyde Hart’s programme (with all his successes in my mind!) - his focus is not speed.
BUT -
There are MANY ways to get to ‘Rome’! YOU cannot change your coach’s training programme. And you cannot add something, e.g. speed, on your own. Maybe, Clyde’s programme is the way that you have to go. Maybe, your body adapts better to this way of training.
In less than a year, you CANNOT decide the programme works OR works not. It takes MORE than a season for a body to get used to/and to adapt to another way of training.
My few ‘cents’ …!
My recommendation will be - DON’T quit, DON’T give up on the 400m. Therefore - believe in what your coach plans. Give your 100% ‘effort’, psychologically - don’t doubt in what your coach is doing.
Hope that one of your next replies will have GOOD NEWS - that you ran a PB, that you ENJOYS competing, etc. Keep us posted!
Take care!
through another link from duxx, I came across this article claiming that there is NO lactate treshold…
http://www.powerrunning.com/Exercise%20Physiology/There%20is%20NO%20Lactate%20Threshold.htm
don’t understand all what he’s saying so maybe some people with some more knowledge can explain or deny what he’s saying?
thought it would be nice to put it in the lactacte treshold training thread wich is quite popular and now i’m reading some people claim that there is no lactate treshold 
I don’t think the lactate “threshold”, as mentioned in that article relates to this thread -practically at least. We are talking about submaximum vs supramaximum intensities (with maximum defined as VO2max, not speed).
Basically, there is no “threshold” due to O2 insufficiency, as once believed; otherwise, your heart would be poisoned… It is just the disturbance of the balance between lactate production and elimination from the blood. And as such there is no “threshold”, just a turnpoint, if you want.
For any extra information on lactate metabolism, look at work by Brooks, Gladden, Mazzeo, Donovan, etc. Hope it helps!
To follow the discussion from this thread http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?t=15244&page=4 , there is non-400m specialist Ron Bramlett (World Class Hurdler 13.26), who gives with details and humour insights on how it is to run a lap :
from his blog http://ronbramlett.blogspot.com/2007_03_01_archive.html
Saturday, March 24, 2007
I went to Wake Forest in Winston-Salem yesterday to run the open 400m. It really didn’t go my way.
I ran last the 4 x 400m Relay last week and led off in 48.3 from lane one in 50º windy weather.
It was about 75º yesterday in Winston-Salem, so I figured I should go 47-something.
I had a race plan on how I was going to get it done.
Check it out:
I ran 48.3 last week and went out super-slow the first 200m. This week, I was going to mash-down for the first 50-60m, coast down the backstretch, then start working back into it at the 150m-to-go mark.
That was my formula for 47.
Didn’t really go that way.
This is what was going through my mind throughout the race:
Gun goes off: “OK. Push off the first 50m. OK… check. Wow. I’m picking up the guy in lane 4 really quick. He must be getting out slow… Or…”
300m to go: “Alright. I need to relax back here in this backstrech. Conserve a little bit… Umm… Nah. Let me push a teench-bit more… Yeah… let me do that…”
250m to go: “OK… This is a nice brisk pace I’m running… I think I’ll be OK. This is what I’m supposed to be doing… Right? …Yeah, this is how you’re supposed to run the 400m… This is cool… I’m cool…??..”
200m to go: “Yeah I’m feeling good. Halfway home! My legs feel good… This is going to be fast! I’m going to blast this last 200m… This is most-def going to be 47! Hell, it might even be 46!! If I run 46, I’ll BE THE MAN!! Yeah! 46, here we come!!”
180m to go: “OK…here it comes. I’m really rolling now!! I’m catching everyone! These guys are gonna be sick when they let me, a 110m hurdler beat them in the 400m!! HA HA HA HA!! I LOVE IT!! Its gonna be 46!!!”
160m to go: “UH-OH…”
150m to go: “Wait a minute… What’s wrong with my legs?”
140m to go: “Umm… Why are those guys pulling away again??”
130m to go:"%*#&!!"
120m to go:“This is stupid.”
110m to go:“Those sound like footsteps… Don’t tell me that guy in lane 4 is coming back… CRAP!! He just passed me back…”
90m to go:“OK. Almost there… Whoa… Did someone just snipe me?..Hey I think someone just shot me in both my hamstrings!!”
80m to go:“Oh no. My back! The same sniper that shot my legs also decided to drop a piano on my back! And not one of those cheap pianos like on the Price-Is-Right™, but one of those huge pianos, like Alicia Keys plays…”
75m to go: “Why did I sign up for this?? TELL ME WHY!!”
65m to go:“OK… those guys are way in front. They’re probably running REAL fast though… Like 45 or something… Yeah… I might not run 46, but maybe I can run 47… Yeah… I’m probably around 47 pace right now… Thats cool with me!!..Man, this is hurting… being shot in both legs and hauling a piano, and all…”
60m to go:“Hey… are those more footsteps–? Oh no… Don’t tell me that guy on the inside is gonna–CRAP!! AM I IN LAST PLACE??!”
50m to go: “Hmm… I think I maybe ran too hard the first half of the race… Umm… Yep, because apparently, I’M DYING!!”
40m to go:“Hey are those people over there laughing? Not cool.”
30m to go:“OK almost there. I can surge again and close until the finish. Cmon. Ready… GO!!.. OK. Maybe not.”
20m to go:“Everything’s… burning… I’m glad Myra’s not here… She’d be laughing so hard. I’m not going to tell her about this…”
10m to go:“Hey is that someone on the outside?? Hey I think I’m going to beat somebody… if… I can… just… stay alive … for the next…”
5m to go:“There’s the clock… 47… 48… get there before it says…”
FINISH: “I think I just ran 49 seconds… $@&^!!!”
:::::::::::::::::::::
Yep, I ran 49.29. I hate that. Even though its my first open 400m in ELEVEN years. (Ran 51.20 in the Tennesee Regional Champs in 1996).
I really wanted to run 47, but I think I went out too hard.
Hopefully, thats the last one for '07…
thats got to be one of the best posts on this site…
has there ever been anyone who did not feel like this at one stage in the 400m…
Great … should go straight into the 400m Coaching Book … or not!
Hey there,
Quick question about this work out. I am doing the following.
Monday
3x3x80m 4/8 min rr
Tuesday
long warm up
med ball circut
long stretching routine
wed
6x200 on grass @ 35 sec or faster
Thursday
5x150
friday
rest
Saturday
starts upto 30m
a couple of 20m fast 20m easy 20m fast
and some 60s if I dont feel tired
My times started droping in the 80s and 60s but the 150s are a struggle for me I do 4 reps in 18 high 19 low. As soon as I finish the 4th rep I cant even stand up. I have to lay down for 20 min. I cant seem to get any better at the 150s.
Should I just slow down ? Or should I just fight thru the pain? BTW I am going to eventually going to raise the rest for the 150s and drop one 150 and add some speed.
sorry if I am rambling 
KitKat,
What times/% of best time over the distance would you have been looking to have your guys run the 300-250-180-150-120 transition phase session with 10mins recovery in?
Hi Speedman,
The effort simulates the race model for a best-effort 400m race. So the 300m could actually be extremely fast.
If the efforts are getting close to PBs, for whatever reason (big tailwinds maybe), then be careful. If the athletes look like they are struggling to back up, you should cut a rep or two. So maybe you end up with a 3-rep session, but of higher quality. The next week you may end up with not so much quality for whatever reason and you can progress through the full set or close to it.
If the 300 is a scorcher, I’d be cutting the 250 out of the equation because it can be the straw which breaks the athlete.
We’re not looking for PBs. Just very solid reps created off a serious opening 60m (just like in a 400m race) and then maintenance of velocity through good mechanics, relaxation and rhythm. If it’s done that way, you will get some fast times and probably with plenty of capacity remaining with which to complete the session.
On the otherhand, if the athlete is muscling through the reps, that’s a bad sign.
You need to watch individuals very closely and monitor how they recover. They also need to be honest with you and not take weakness as a lack of character. It’s probably just that they’re not ready on that particular day to do that particular session. No shame in that.
I received a PM from one of the coaches checking on some aspects of the taper coming into NCAAs. I won’t quote the results or the proposed schedule, but hope he won’t mind me posting my reply because it may be of interest to others on the forum.
"Firstly, CONGRATULATIONS. tremendous indiv and relay effort. Secondly, those results should give you more confidence (not less!) that what you’ve been doing has been the right stuff.
Third: Nothing at all wrong with the schedule and sessions you’ve listed. I like them very, very much.
OK, so here are some thoughts about this taper caper: In that last week, make sure your 400m sprinters never hit 100%, except maybe for a moment at the peak of their acceleration. But you don’t want them leaving it on the training track when they’ll need it on race-day.
Even if they are not looking that great, you should tell them they’re going too fast and to “EASE BACK” just a tiny bit. That will encourage self-belief, but also RELAXATION which should help them actually run even Faster. So the self-belief won’t be based on bullshit. You can show them the clock. What they need now is the confidence to run their own race, not be frightened into going out too hard too early (or too slow to “save” themselves for the home straight) on race day.
The other obs is that I would take every opportunity now to set up the training runs and even some tempo, to RACE MODEL their event.
Some guys have trouble at specific points of the race, so they can build confidence if you let them take their rolling 120 into the trouble zone (typically down the backstraight, around the 200m start area spilling up toward the waterjump). It’s about balance and rhythm and staying tall through the turns.
Of course you probably want them to have run through their trouble spots at sub-race pace a few times before you let them smack a crisp rolling 120. And even then the time needs to be interpreted. They may not run sub-12 for a fly 120 when half the distance is around a corner, but nevertheless the time and the run might have been superb.
Also I’d be doing some kind of warm-up and race modelling (one or two runs into and off each turn) the day before they compete. However I’d be considering giving them a day or two off to rest (and go stir crazy with excess energy) backing up on days 3 and 2 before the penultimate day (day 1) which preceeds Day 0. (race day). Whether they need 2 rest days depends on how much base they have and how many rounds/races await them at NCAAs of course. The more work behind and ahead of them, the more desirable the extra rest day. Then the penultimate day’s race modelling session is really about restoring the rhythm of the race.
Back yourself. kk
I’VE POSTED THIS IN THE ‘NEWS’ SECTION, BUT IT WILL DROP OFF SOON ENOUGH, WHEREAS I THINK THIS INTERVIEW WITH CLYDE HART AND JEREMY WARINER IS SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH TO IMPRESS MOST 400M ATHLETES AND COACHES, SO BY POSTING HERE WE CAN RETAIN IT FOR FUTURE READERS/REFERENCE. kk
Jeremy Wariner latest in Baylor coach’s world-class star system
By John Meyer
Denver Post Staff Writer
Article Last Updated: 05/13/2007 12:09:48 AM MDT
Jeremy Wariner is the center of attention as he leads a sweep of the medals in the Olympic 400 in Athens, finishing ahead of Otis Harris, left, and Derrick Brew. (AFP/Getty Images / Jeff Haynes)Related Articles
May 13:
Q&A with track coach Clyde HartWaco, Texas - The man who coaches Jeremy Wariner, the world’s greatest white sprinter, was once a pretty fair country sprinter himself. And when Clyde Hart says skin color has little to do with success as a sprinter, he harkens back to his boyhood in segregated Hot Springs, Ark., in the 1950s.
In those days, Hart ran with Bobby Mitchell, who had a Hall of Fame career in the NFL and set a world indoor record for the 70-meter hurdles. Neither had a track or a coach in high school, so they trained by racing each other.
“He was the state champion in the black school division and I was the state champion in the white,” said Hart, Baylor’s guru of the 400 meters who coached Michael Johnson to three individual Olympic gold medals in the 200 and 400 and world records in both events. “We never raced officially. We would run until one of us would say uncle. He never beat me.”
Decades later, Mitchell spotted Hart in the audience at a speaking engagement, pointed to him and said: “That’s the only white guy who ever outran me.”
Color irrelevant
No wonder Wariner, the reigning Olympic and world champion in the 400 who just might break Johnson’s world record this year, doesn’t think of his skin color as a disadvantage.
“I don’t see that,” Wariner said before a workout at the Baylor track this spring. "I’m an athlete, they’re an athlete, we’re all trying to do the same things. The only hurdle I had, my first hurdle was trying to get under 45 (seconds), the next one was getting under 44. My next hurdle is to get under 43.
“I don’t see, 'The first white to do this, the first white to do that.”’
Others do, though.
“I’ve never seen a white man run that fast,” Grenada’s Alleyne Francique told reporters after finishing fourth in the race Wariner won at the 2004 Athens Olympics. “It was a blazing race, man. The kid is good.”
So good only three men in history have run faster than the 43.62 he ran last summer at age 22. So good he became an Olympic champion before turning professional. So good he’s closing in on Johnson’s world record of 43.18, set at the 1999 world championships when Johnson was 31.
All in the family
On May 5, Wariner ran 44.02 - the fastest time run in May, when sprinters are just gearing up for the season - on the track in Japan where the world championships will be held in August. He said he hopes to break the record when he returns.
If he does, at least the record will stay within the circle of men who helped forge it. Not only do Wariner and Johnson have Hart’s coaching in common, but Johnson is Wariner’s agent.
Hart doesn’t deny successful white sprinters are unusual today.
“I think the black athlete in our country has taken advantage of the opportunities to get their education (through track), while a lot of our white athletes are on the computer, they’re driving their cars, they’re playing golf,” Hart said. “I don’t think there’s any physical reason. I think the white athlete is not as hungry as they used to be.”
Football first
Wariner demonstrated exceptional speed at a young age. Growing up in Arlington, Texas, he played everything - soccer, baseball, basketball, football, roller hockey - often changing clothes in the back seat of his mother’s car on the way from one practice to another.
“Playing soccer when I was a little kid, I was always running down the field before everybody else,” Wariner said. “Playing basketball, I was always too fast to do a layup - I was always missing them because I couldn’t get the rhythm down for a while.”
Wariner’s mother, Linda, has some Cherokee blood in her ancestry and believes that’s where Jeremy got his speed.
“As early as the fifth grade, somebody noticed how smooth his stride was,” Linda said. “They said, 'Your son runs like an antelope.”’
As with any true Texan, football was Wariner’s first love. In the living room of his parents’ home in Arlington is a picture of him getting blown up by a defensive back after making a catch for Lamar High School in a state playoff game at Texas Stadium. Wariner had dreams of playing college football and attracted scholarship feelers, but he was as frail as he was fast, so he decided to concentrate on track after winning the 200 and 400 at the state meet his senior year. He weighed 145 pounds.
“Yeah, I miss it,” said the 6-foot-1 Wariner, who weighs 150 now. “Everyone who plays high school football in the state of Texas and stops, they’re always going to miss it.”
Fast company
Baylor was the perfect place for Wariner because of Hart’s knack for coaching the 400. After seeing what Hart did for Johnson, Wariner and Darold Williamson, another world class 400-meter runner from Baylor, former University of Texas sprinter Sonya Richards asked Hart to coach her. Last year she became the world’s top female quarter-miler.
“Penn State University, they’re known as Linebacker U.,” said Hart, who is in his 50th year of coaching. “We’re known as Quarter-Miler U.”
Wariner emerged on the world scene as a Baylor sophomore, putting up times that transformed him from phenom to Olympic favorite in mere months.
“We were just hoping he’d make the relay team,” said Wariner’s father, Danny. “But as we got closer and closer to the (Olympic) trials, with the way he was running, ‘He’s got a chance.’ When he dominated at the trials, then all of a sudden you’re thinking, 'Now he’s going to Athens, and there isn’t anyone there he can’t beat.”’
Wariner won the Olympics in 44-flat, the fastest time in the world that year, and claimed a second gold medal in the 1,600-meter relay.
“It didn’t hit me until I got home about a week later, when I realized I was going to be turning professional,” Wariner said. “I was like, 'I guess I won’t be wearing the (Baylor) green and gold no more.”’
Wariner says he always believed he could run with anyone, regardless of color.
“And I think that’s how a lot of the young kids growing up should feel,” Wariner said, “that they can do anything anybody else is doing.”
Wariner’s father can hardly believe his son is running on the heels of Johnson, one of the greatest stars in track history.
“Michael is a hero to me,” Danny Wariner said. “To think Jeremy is just right there … that’s amazing.”
Fast, faster, fastest
Best all-time marks in the 400 meters:
(Time Runner Year Age)
43.18 Michael Johnson 1999 31
43.29 Butch Reynolds 1988 24
43.39 Johnson 1995 27
43.44 Johnson 1996 28
43.49 Johnson 1996 28
43.50 Quincy Watts 1992 22
43.62 Jeremy Wariner 2006 22
Note: Johnson didn’t go under 44 seconds until he was 24 years old.
I really like the idea of rhythm sessions the day before the major race but as you say it’s important to rest up in the week before the race - but when to rest that is the question.
I’m not too sure if I totally agree with it but Dan Pfaff talks about “accute releaving syndrome”, which basically means that when you put in more rest than your body is usually expecting (say 3 days rather than 1 a week) it shuts down.
He says you have to be careful when you rest your body because the moment it gets some rest it goes into hibination and you stop being able to perform because it decides since it is having rest it might as well shut down performance entirely (after all if you are resting you don’t need to perform!) Then you are left with the issue that you are “asleep” when you should be relaxed and ready. And this is the issue of when more rest is not better during the taper (something charlie gets areound via submaximal work and tha fact he has his off days earlier in the 10day taper).
Also the time needed to achieve optimal readyness (at least in the 100m) is a lot longer than I would have expected. I’ve found that you need at least 2 weeks of submaximal work (4 days before Stimulus session + 10 day taper) to achieve optimal results when tapering for the 100m. And this was with athletes running above 10.5 maybe it is even longer for those at world class level?
KK and Sprint Coach,
What do you guys prescribe for a runner who loses form and leans back at the end of the race?Would this be addressed in the gym?
It could be caused by a number of things. Sometimes the “leaning backwards” actually isn’t a problem. If the pelvis still presents in a neutral position, then I’d be thinking to maybe leave it alone. Looking at Michael Johnson and Butch Reynolds. They both looked like they were leaning backwards but that didn’t stop them setting world records at 400m.
I don’t think you want to get tooooo specific with your strength training. Just a good general strengthening program with not too many exercises seems, on balance, the best option for a majority of athletes I’ve observed over the years.
Even Ben Johnson looked sometimes like he was extremely vertical, seemingly on the verge once or twice of “leaning back” but it certainly wouldn’t have been due to any weakness in his case. He has huge strength in his back, glutes and hams.
As did MJ
Hi kitkat
also Fat Joe looks like he “lean back lean back”
but on a serious note, yes i agree with you.
Hey guys.
I have a couple of issues that I need help addressing in order to take my GPP further this summer.
At the end of my season I found out I have a small stress fracture on the side of my foot. I am now cleared to resume some training but not too much hard pounding on my feet as there is still some soreness. During that time,ive been riding the stationary bike, and i can still do all liftings, olympic lifts as well.
As far as conditioning goes,what type of things can I do to get in better shape without risking injury?
have you tried running with a vest in the water?
ive done it before and it works a treat. ive got some killer sessions and it keeps you in a reasonable condition