Here is another one (great one)
Wasterblad, H., Allen, D.G., Lännergren, J. (2002). Muscle fatigue: lactic acid or inorganic phosphate the major cause? News Physiol Sci 2002;17:17-21.
Is there a way to weight train to help combat or build a higher tolerance to lactic acid fatigue?
Why would you want to with all the other options for training?
i want to use all my options.i need ever single one.
No you don’t!
What event are you working towards anyway? If it isn’t the Marathon then you should use strength work for… ah… well, strength.
My question is, if you have all these methods avaliable to you why not used them all or try them all. Everything isn’t going to work for everyone…It just a question. All i want to know is, in addition to your running training, can you train for lactate acid tolerance in the weight room?
should be possible, just squat with 60-70% until you fall.
eg. 70kg, 5x 25 reps 1’breaks. 
That should give some acid
Yes, just squat with a light weight until you get the burn, as above. However, i doubt that pure “lactic tollerence” is a limiting factor in 400m running - therefore, using gym work to develop lactic tollerence probably wouldn’t transfer to faster times on the track.
Is there any transfer of “lactate tolerance” developed by weight circuits to some sport specific situation? I know this thread is about 400m, but can you develop “lactate tolerance” with running or weight circuits and expect that this “ability” helps you with, lets say, sparring or wrestling? Sorry for this out of topic question…
I wouldn’t know about that, but it’s a great mental training. The burn however is not the as felt on a 400. The only thing i got from both is that i coulnd stand for 20 minutes after doing it.(did the sqautting once… never again, the 400 will be done some more times)
Squatting till you drop and can’t stand up after. Christsakes!!
Can’t anyone catch on to the problem with using weights for lactic tolerance???
What training are you going to do after this? How will it go?? Carrying out a secondary activity till it compromises the things you really need is just plain dumb.
2 x 300 in 75secs isn’t my idea of Special Endurance.
I agree CF… From what I have learned here, weight training is General compared to the specific qualities of the sport. Using it to develop specific qualities like lactate tolerance never made sense to me; you are already developing those necessary qualities on the track. It seems like if you were using this sort of thing in the weight room, you are training for an ultra endurance weight training competition. Squatting for 2 sets of 25 reps would really have no use to a person, let alone a sprinter (except maybe a bodybuilder??). The 400m is still a sprint event!
But Louie Simmons had Butch Reynolds squat for 45 second sets to simulate his 400m race
Sorry, I’m feeling extra sarcastic today…and yes Louie did say this. Undoubtedly this was much later in Butch’s career (after WR form).
But what if the off-season is very long (compared to inseason)? Wouldnt that “weight circuits” have some role in maintaining “lactate capacity” (as long as they are consireder HI) without doing more specifi stuff?
Again, out of topic, but some authorities uses weight and body circuits to develop LA tolerance for MMA (mixed martial arts) and other MA? I know that more specific work, like sparring, heavy bag work, is more appropriate, but what if you have a lot of time till the matches and dont want to engage into most specific means, without loosing this ability to tolerate LA?
I’m sure weight training can be used to generate a “lactic response”. We’ve all felt it, being dared to go to breakdown (“I can do more reps than you” ).
Many questions arise out of training like this, and most of them have a major downside.
It wouldn’t take very long to achieve a “lactic response” using weights, but the volume required could potentially lead to “body-building” mass and the risk would be that you lose your power-to-bodyweight ratio advantage.
“Recovering” from weights does not seem as easy as recovery from track. The loading in a weights program geared to developing “lactic tolerance” would need to be very carefully monitored, the regeneration and rehab also carefully monitored.
I would also worry about the possibility some exercises would lead to a tightening of the muscle(s) which could lead to particular injury. I would also be concerned about “developing” a muscle that was bulging rather than long and lean.
Then when you want to lift weights for strength, you may be too tired, stiff, sore, from doing the weights circuit type of work to be able to build serious strength without risking serious injury.
Weights at volume do tend to “tear down” an athlete. If you try to lift big when you’re already torn down, that could become a disasterous injury or at the very least your max lifts would be far below your potential.
So you would have to separate your “weight lactic work” far away from your major lifting and, for that matter, your major sprinting.
It may be easier to generate lactic tolerance in the pool, bike, punching bag - and running. kk
For track this isn’t an issue… i think KK only lets his athletes have 2 weeks total recovery a year because of it.
For MMA etc… I’ve never been crazy enough to try it but do you really get a great deal of lactic when fighting. From what i’ve watched the good guys strategicially use thier bodyweight to avoid having to use much muscle strength (similar to rock climbing).
TC
Tnx kitkat and tc!
I was always a proponet of doing the most “specific work” for “lactate tolerance” : if you are a runner then run, if you are a fighter then fight… Simply put!
Just yesterday, I did some “metabolic conditioning” for one taekwondo fighter (she is also having her ordinary practices at the evening) simulating rounds (this is don after the gym work):
10 boxer jumps
6 guard changes (fast)
10 squat jumps
6 guard changes (fast)
10 jumping jacks
6 guard changes (fast)
10 skips
6 guard changes (fast)
10 seal jumps
6 guard changes (fast)
10 scissor jumps (split squats)
6 guard changes (fast)
10 flings
6 guard changes (fast)
10 wide outs
(repeat)
Session #1: 3x1’30’’ with 1’ rest
Session #2: 3x1’45’’ with 45’’ rest
Session #3: 4x2’00’’’ with 30’’ rest
Session #3: 4x2’15’’’ with 20’’ rest
This is done twice per week. The champ is on 22. april… The rounds are 3x2mins with 30sec rest (WTF taekwond do).
I didnt want to engage her into the most specific means (sparring, bag work) because I am a s&c c and she is already having tkd practices at the evening. Also, I didnt wanted to use “weight circuits”, so I was experimenting with this kalistenics… I will post my whole programm after the champ for criticues!
Tnx for the help, and again sorry for this “out of topic” (is this out of topic anyway? ) 
NOT off topic. Very interesting. I like the conditioning methods, mixing elements of the specific activity with other specific but perhaps less explosive (therefore slightly less exhausting) activity.
It is an excellent concept and sounds like you have come up with a perfect adaptation appropriate for the needs of this martial arts competitor.
Thinking along these lines could lead some coaches to new ideas for general preparation period training, particularly some variety of circuit training (station x station, etc).
I applied something perhaps similar in the power-circuit I use in the 400m GPP, but I use linear skipping (or bounding, or alternate hopping) to get from one station to the next around a football field. Plus I mix in some simple sets of sit-up, jack-jump (knees to chest) and push-ups, with short sprint out and run back on a grid.
But what you have created looks perfect for your needs and appropriate to an indoor setting (small area). kk
A few years ago a world class boxer came to us for some help in his training. He was in his 30s and he wanted to try a different way of getting his stammina up. So I put him on a 400 training program. We didnt give him everything, because he still needed to train in the gym. But we used a 3x 3 x3oo wo with a 100jog recovery after each 100 and a 7 min rest between sets. We did this once a week for 7 weeks his times came down each week . On other days we used faster 200s and 150s He supplemented this with distance runs and jump rope. plus all his other boxing training. He went on to win a world title and he also won the award for fight of the year in boxing. He was known to have tremendous stammina in the later rounds. He credited the 400 training as one of the main fctors to his great succsess so late in his career. He said the 300s were very close to the same feeling he got at the end of each round. His name is Mickey Ward he has since retired.
Thanks for great infos guys!
Kitkat, I really appreciate your opinion, and now I know we are on the right track… thanks!
Mekstrand, if we would have more time to work (only three weeks till the champ), we will certainly do the 300s you proposed… for now, we do only tempos and medball outside!
Here is the week structure:
Mon: Gym work + “metabolic conditioning” outlined above
Tue: Explosive medballs (5 exercises with 10throws) + tempo runs
Wed: Gym work + TABATA
Thu: Explosive medballs (5 exercises with 10throws) + tempo runs
Fri: Gym work + “metabolic conditioning” outlined above
Sat: Explosive medballs (5 exercises with 10throws) + tempo runs
Sun: REST
Because we have less time (three weeks) and space in the gym, and because I wanted to increase her lactate tolerance (and “aerobic conditioning”), I am using TABATA once per week (WED):
20sec high speed skips (in place on the mat)
10 rest
20sec high speed wide-ins
10rest
repeat 3 times (week one), 4 times (week two)
Last week, I will kick out tabata, and reduce tempo, weight etc, to allow supercompenzation etc…
She have some issues with her back, so I am very carefull… also, she is my “first” elite, and I am a begginer s&c coach, so we will see how this is all going to be…
What do you think?