Why looking at “running form” at 75% pace?
If you mean relaxed, I agree…
Clearly you want to be @ 95%+, but trying to pick up speed after 400m? It just doesn’t sound like a great idea and will probably tie up most people (intermediate athletes).
Then we agree, 
Maybe Commanche is into the lactic work, and he loves to die in training? I think we agree om the fact that we won’t recommend such a workout.
Also i dont understand why the 3x200’s after 2x500 will go slower than the 500’s. After an almost full recovery. Can you clearify on that comanche?
To make a short explaination, a lot of my training is from Clyde Hart’s concepts. So the ideas of his wont agree with Charlie Francis’s concepts. Thats would explain what you are asking.
Okay, but do you understand what Clyde Hart is aiming at or are you just trying to replicate the workouts?
Clyde Hart gets guys that have a good amount of speed too… (20.4 in HS and 21.3 w/o training).
- You should inform all of us about your theory behind your workouts. What are you doing and why! Because if we don’t speak the same language how can you expect of us to reply.
You know a large part of this forum works with charlie’s concept( I wonder why) So asking comment about a plan thats works with another concept seems just useless. We will never give you a good reply(in your eyes) because we do not agree with the concept you use.
So why ask questions about your plan when you know people will critisize your plan because they don’t agree with the concept. For good icoment on the plan maybe www.clydehart.com can give some more insight on plans based on this concept.
Your question is like:
What do you think me about standing on a chair? when everybody else sits on it.
- If it suits you do it. But dont ask it to guys that don’t have experience standing on chairs.
Also haven’t you asked the same questions before on your/harts programm before?
- if so should your part in this thread also be in the 400 part of this forum?
I dont feel like turning this great thread into a prove who is right and who is wrong. Both coaches have proven there concepts with results. If you want information on Clyde Hart’s concepts, better to here it from him than me via this site:
http://www.nacactfca.org/articles/Hart-eng.htm
I don’t remember asking this specific question on this site about this topic. I did ask about Clyde Hart, but the person who responded told me to ask it in this thread.
I never asked about Clyde Hart’s concepts as far as this and last page is concerned. I was originally asking about good alternatives to tempo workouts.
I have no where said I was against Charlie Francis’s concepts. I was answering Charlie’s and others questions.
Again, lets just drop it, and keep this good thread going, without it having to get closed down over a trivial topic.
But, if anyone else has anything to add to my original question (alternatives to tempo on low intensity days), feel free to respond.
I just don’t see what you’re doing with the tempo CF style when the entire Clyde Hart program (not just based on one article) is based on tempo. For example, what is being done for speed work and when? Weren’t you training differently before the indoor season and when you didn’t get the result you wanted, you changed the program? Correct me if I’m wrong here, I’m just trying to understand where you are trying to go in training.
As far as the other options to tempo, do a search or check out that thread provided before. Medball circuits intermixed with bodyweight circuits are awesome and will whip you into shape fast.
Regarding Tempo: You (anybody, coach or competitor) need to have a philosophy about training which incorporates program Structure and the performance threadS (Strength, Speed, Style [technique], Suppleness [flexibility & mobility], Stamina & §Sychology. :- The Six S’s!
Within the rhythm of your High/Low intensity days (or your High Velocity / Low Velocity) training days) you need to think about Tempo: What is it, What claims do its proponents make for their use of it, and Why you personally would benefit from using it (over and above using some other training Strategy).
IF Charlie considers only interval running performed at less than 75 per cent of your fastest single repetition for the distance (usually 100, 150 and/or 200 with 300s if you want for 400m preparation), then you need to consider why he believes anything much faster is Not “tempo”.
And if it does not meet CF’s or CH’s “definition” for Tempo, does that necessarily mean it is wrong for Your Program?
The other thing worth considering when you reference the training of Olympic medal contenders is that one man’s tempo Might be another man’s Max. (or bloody close to it).
Can you call 6x200 in 23sec with jog 200 recoveries “Tempo”? Not when your PB for 1 x 200 is 23.2sec.
If you’ve run a flying 200 in sub-20, is rep 200s in 23 then “Tempo”?
Does it matter what you call it? If there is an important role for 6x200 in your 200/400 program, will you drop it because it’s not Max Velocity but neither is it Tempo?
Of course not.
We should not get hung up on semantics.
But we Should have an intellectual understanding of the role of “tempo” in our program.
As for options to Tempo, perhaps you need to take a closer look again at the claims made for Tempo Running, especially in relation to developing neural pathways specific to running.
You can do other work to keep trim, slim and terrific (pool sessions, bike work, boxing pad sparring and bag work [boxing a speedball was an Allan Wells favourite], circuit training, including weight circuits, medball circuits.
They all have their role, but you need to understand what such work can deliver and, just as importantly, what it cannot deliver.
So you need to factor into your training strategy the right balance of the various types of training available, at the right time in the annual training plan, so that you have the capacity to deliver your optimal performance on a time-line that enables you to peak when it counts.
Ultimately it comes down to what we leave out of the program, rather than what we can jam into it. You could spend a lifetime cramming every training option into a program and never produce a decent performance when it matters - or even when it doesn’t.
That’s why it is really important to have an understanding of the performance threads required to deliver a good result, and get busy constructing a simple, sensible plan that satisfies the needs of touching on all Six of the S’s in a coherent, balanced and progressive way leading always toward better delivery of higher speeds. kk
6 x 200 in 23 with a 200 jog must surely be Special Endurance, counting all 6 as one unit of work. That would be pushing 100% of almost anyone’s capacity, even if a single 23 sec 200 could be tempo for that same guy.
Definitely agree. And that just adds an extra level to what I detect is a bit of confusion about a Definition of Tempo. . .
I was doing something somewhat different last “indoor season”. I analyzed what occurred, and adjusted accordingly. As for your question for speed work, acceleration will turn into speed work as the season goes along. There is another person that participated in this thread that did something similar.
This is like a seminar that doesn’t quit! Luvin it!
SO much of what everyone is speaking about relates to longer training periods. How would you put this in to a 12 week season for HS athletes. 1/3 of my squad is new to the sprinting. WHat would your season look like?
THIS IS A PM re the final preparations for SprintCoach’s top male 400m competitor leading up to the Commonwealth Games …
Regarding my question, re the programme:
Friday, 3 March, - We did 5 x 200 (24)
Saturday, 4 March - Paul did not feel good, anti-climax .
Sunday, 5 March (before we left) - WT.
Monday, 6 March (flight to Australia).
Tuesday, 7 March - Tempo - 100, 100, 100, etc
Wednesday, 8 March - 200+200 (21,3 and 22,5), a few jumps.
Thursday, 9 March - Rest
Friday, 10 March - 300 (33)+2 x 50; 200 (21,2)+2 x 50; 150 (15,3)+2 x 50.
Saturday, 11 March - Rest
Sunday, 12 March - 60+60; 60+80; 80+100. Excellent times … the last 100 (with a strong wind from behind) - 9,90!! :eek: 
My INITIAL planning for the week:
Monday - 200 (RP) + 100 FAST
Tuesday - Rest
Wednesday - 3 x 150 build ups
Thursday - Rest
Friday - Bend running (Race Model)
Saturday - Rest
Sunday - Warm up, Rhythm, Build up, Warm down
Monday - 1st round
Tuesday - SF
Wednesday - Final
My concern is - does he need a specific session, e.g. 300 or 250 (RP)? Or another 200+200 OR 300+150? Or something at a fast intensity … e.g. 150’s? In stead of the build ups?
As I said, I don’t want him to be tired BUT on the other hand, the muscles and the nerve-system must still know what to do.
Thanks very much.
:::::::::::::::::
Hi SprintCoach,
I think the only change I would consider would be to go with a Time Trial at 200m or 300m on Monday (March 13, 2006), rather than a split run starting with that 200 at race pace (21.2?).
If you get this message in time, given that he missed that race shortly before flying to Australia, I’d be looking to put in that solitary special speed endurance run up to 300m.
It would be with a rolling start, maybe a three or four stride fly.
And that would end the session.
The rest of your program looks good, plenty of rest. For my own people I have always given them two days rest (to absolutely ensure they are fresh for the multi-round challenge ahead) before race-modelling the day before competition which restores the rhythm of the race in time to compete in Round One.
I have also texted you on your cell phone.
Best wishes in Melbourne.
kk
THIS IS A PM from sprint-coach re the final preparations for her top male 400m competitor leading up to the Commonwealth Games …
Didn’t pick that one.
Do they only train for 12 weeks total :eek: or is the competative season 12 weeks?
THis is the track season in its entirety. Sucks huh?
I can post what I have if anyone thinks they can help?
Oh yeah, the meets start within 2 weeks of the start of the season
Which state is this located it? I’ve heard of short track season’s, but that one seems way overdone. Also, did you check the rules of your state? Usually states allow you start training at a certain point, some dont care when you start. If it is that short, you should just give things for your athletes to do under the table, and not supervise the training. That way, no one can stop the athletes from training, and you are not giving an organized training day before the rules say you can.