You can “play” with all the training variables to therefore provide lots of “variety”.
Looking at the sample week you have posted, it looks very much like an early week in the general preparation phase: that is, quite a bit of volume, all with short recoveries.
The easiest way to emphasise speed is to take longer rest, reduce the number of reps. To do this though without “losing” your hard-earned endurance base, you may consider slicing up your program into smaller cycles.
By that I mean/suggest you go two weeks of speed followed by two weeks of what you are currently doing. You can continue to modify sessions, or rest days etc when you want to race or trial for time.
The thing is that once you have created the program structure (such as two days of training, one day rest, three days training, one day rest in the micro cycle - weekly cycle), and two weeks speed followed by two weeks endurance in the macro-cycle (in this case a monthly cycle, which can be extended to six weeks or whatever) then you can collect your favourite speed sessions and your favourite endurance sessions and slot them into the appropriate days.
In this way you have created a modular structure which assists control of your training, improving direction, adherence to your seasonal time-line, assisting prediction of peak etc etc.
I think the coaching philosophy and structure of the program shell are two of the most important things underpinning a successful result.
i know kitkat that my question is little out from your expertise but cause the title is lactate threshold training I think these couple of questions aint too far out.
I train mma and are starting gpp this coming monday. the gpp starts with three week period of lactate streshold training as priority.
my fights at my class (class c&d) are done with two five minute rounds so I thought I would do the three week period split like this.
monday:26200meters(200mt jog between reps and 15minutes between sets.
friday:2645s—>heavy bag work!(2minutes between reps 15minutes between reps)
tempo and mma training done tues, wednes, thurs and saturday…or…and…after lactate training in the evening(at least 4 hours apart)
and for the questions
1.are two sets of six enough/too much when the fights are with two five minute rounds?
2.should I include explosive med.ball work(med.ball accelerations/med.ball hops) at this stage of gpp and if so should they be done with the lactate work or in tempo days.
Hi Apunen,
What does mma stand for and your class? Excuse my ignorance. I’m assuming some kind of martial art? Interesting.
Do you get lactic in the legs when you fight? Or mostly just in the arms?
[Most fighters I’ve known just do the steady aerobic training, typically with road runs. One I knew did 10x400m on a track.]
With regards the 2x6x200 being enough or insufficient, depends on the intensity you run the rep and the recovery between reps. Middle distance runners using that session as “fast tempo” would have no great problem covering two sets, so long as the speed wasn’t too close to their current-season best for 1rm.
I assume you are trying to prepare for the worst case scenario, so what is the longest time you’ve been obliged to fight hard continuously without breaking off the engagement?
The answer to that would inform the length of your longest rep in gpp. Instead of doing all you tempo sets over 200 (if this is your intention?) you could consider doing a variety of distances, each on different days. Example 300m (3x3x300m), 150 (3x4x150) as well as your 200m and the old “wind-sprints” (stop-start).
I’d be thinking to throw in a circuit as well which could integrate a grid on a grassy field with various stations along the sidelines and do situps, pushups, star-jumps whatever, with skips or bunny hops, or backwards running, whatever to get from station to station.
It just adds variety. You never want to get bored training. A bored athlete is a weak athlete.
How long is your gpp? What will you progress into the next phase(s)?
Sorry if I got off the track: Med ball siting depends how you do this work. If you do high volume short recovery as a kind of strength-endurance session you could used that as stations on a circuit.
If you do med ball accelerations strictly for power and you use full recovery, I’d be thinking to integrate them into the next phase after gpp. But perhaps you could do both, go from an endurance focus in gpp, to a more full recovery/quality in transition from gpp moving forward.
If you want a straight answer to your question, I’d do it on a tempo day and build it into a jog around the park perhaps, mixing it up again with medball-situps and all manner of throws, including seated partner-assisted throws.
Although we are 2 weeks away from high competitions and the Nationals in mid February, I keep the Wednesdays in my training programme as a “rest day”. (Physio, massage, chiro, etc.) But for the past few weeks, I found that my athletes’ performances are not good after the rest day. They struggle to get into rhythm and to run in decent times.
This week, e.g. they were supposed to do 150’s. In the WU already, they were complaining about “feeling flat, cannot get into their strides, rhythm problems.” I have changed the session to the 4 x 150m [diagonally jog back/walk back]. With that my best athlete e.g. only managed a 15,7 (HT).
Strangely enough, the performances the next day are ALWAYS better. They feel good, they are positive, no “moaning and groaning”! We did 2 (200+200) and against a STRONG wind the last 200m, my best athlete could do a 45,2 and 45,1. Very consistent. (This was not even a full effort - he is still cautious with the tight nerve in the hamstring.)
Now, about my planning with the above-mentioned in mind -
(1) Can it be that the massage on the day before can influence the performances on a Thursday? (Then - NO massages close to races.)
OR
(2) The fact that they struggle with the rhythm directly after the rest day and perform the next day - means that I have to do something fast the day before competition?
(3) How will this affect the programme when rounds are run?
Apart from this problem, everything is fine! I have 2 sets of (300+150) next week - I suppose a more realistic prediction of what they are capable of in the 400m.
What is before the rest day - Tempo or High intensity? Massage on the rest day might flattern them out for the next day at least? Perhaps you need to be doing:
Mon: Hi
Tue: Low + Deep Massage
Wed: Rest + light Mas to help remove irritation from the deep massage on the tuesday
Thur: Hi
etc
I’ve heard this a lot from High Jumpers who have work done on thier feet but then get problems with flatness.
What does mma stand for and your class?
mma=mixed martial arts and classes are from A to D. A includes all the submissions, punching on the ground and have more and longer rounds as D doesnt have certain submission, no punching on the ground, shorter and fewer rounds. B/C are between these two.
Do you get lactic in the legs when you fight? Or mostly just in the arms?
From my experience most lactic buildup comes from takedowns so the answer would be legs.
I would run the 200meters close to my lactic endurance without compromising form. how I was planning progress from session to session is at 26200 session I would run little faster every session and at heavy bag session I would ad the time I would hit the bag(this training would too be done close to maximum lactate treshold without compromising punching form)every session starting at 45seconds next session could be 50seconds.
I assume you are trying to prepare for the worst case scenario, so what is the longest time you’ve been obliged to fight hard continuously without breaking off the engagement?
I have done some research by watching fights and longest spurt without brake would be around 1 minute. and this is pretty much what top guys can take without gassing out.
I was thinking about doing tempo sessions like this.
example 1.running on soft mats charlie francis style.(weather outside is pretty dreadfull at this time of the year).
2.med.ball circuit with short rest brakes
3.shadow boxing 21045s with 15s brakes between reps and 2 minutes between sets
4.pool work done as shadow boxing.
How long is your gpp? What will you progress into the next phase(s)?
after lactate treshold period I would progress to the phase done in gpp essentials dvd(the hill runs scenario that progess to flat sprints)
at the med.ball question I meant that should I do explosive med.ball training for power(accelerations and 1,2,3 hops) at lactate phase or start them at next phase when I start hills.
Or if i will include them to lactate phase should I do the intensive med.ball training after the lactate runs and heavy bag work or on tempo days?
Just out of interest, may I ask what your top male’s week will look like coming into his first 400 race on Dec 16?
I was specifically wondering how you structure your week leading into a contest.
Everyone has their preferences. I opted to do a warmup-warmdown with race modelling elements the day before racing. Some prefer to have the day off. I found my athletes lost too much rhythm (due to the day off) precisely when they most needed that rhythm.
So if - for a single round-competition - they raced on a Saturday, they would have Thursday as a rest day, warmup/down/model on the Friday and race Saturday.
Unless there were issues, we tried to make our last deep-tissue massage Wednesday (following training) but preferably even earlier in the week.
There was always the option of light massage and trigger-point therapy right up to the day of the race, though the more self-aware athletes I’ve worked with tended to be cautious about massage close to the race for fear that heavyhanded treatment would wreck their muscle tonus thereby unravelling their precious rhythm.
kk"
sprint coach,
can you describe a week or two of your 400m man’s current program, including rest days, number, intensity and siting of massage sessions, rehab/regen sessions (ie, spa, pool, sauna etc), reps/sets and intensity of track sessions. Can you also list what days your athletes lift weights and typical intensity, plus number of reps and sets.
I thought I had a handle on what you were doing. Now not so sure. I’m wondering whether intensity is stacking up on itself. Also intrigued to read you have Wednesday as rest day. So if you race Saturday, does that mean you only train on Thursday and do light warmup Friday?
All of the above are factors influencing how the athlete feels and how prepared they may be to race well.
To specifically answer your questions:
Yes massage can cause temporary loss of rhythm.
Yes, athletes will tend to lose rhythm after a rest day (esp if they receive deep-tissue massage on the rest day).
Yes, all athletes I have worked with have benefitted from doing something at race pace (even if just a flying 60m) the day before a race to re-establish the rhythm of the race (BUT NOTHING TO GENERATE LACTIC ACID).
(Lack of) Rhythm is the problem you are referring to now. Rhythm will be enhanced through multi-rounds in an appropriately conditioned athlete.
kk
I Really like your plans. I think you have a good handle on all aspects you’ve mentioned. And I’m impressed you’ve come to track looking for a fitness edge because you will definitely benefit.
As for medicine-ball accelerations. I’d be introducing them carefully into the tempo routine during the general prep phase (gpp), really easy - no blasting, just enough to conditin the small muscles, work the majors through the specific range of movement and keep the heart and lungs working. Then at least when you come out of your gpp you’ll be ready to do the medball work explosively without fear of damaging those smaller muscles.
Just one thought on the track reps, I’d be looking occasionally in the gpp to throw in that 3x3x300 with 100m jog between reps, one lap job between first two sets; one lap jog followed by one lap walk (or jog) between 2nd and 3rd set. I know you’re stuck indoors right now, but when the sun returns that session is worth your consideration. A Good female 400m runner would do all the 300m runs in under 50sec. But I mean a Good female. Most would struggle to go sub-50 for all nine reps. So the time is getting close to your maximum bout activity span (of a minute). In the meanwhile you’ve already listed so many good indoor training options. Smart stuff.
KitKat, this lack of rhythm is it only a problem with the 400m and above (sub max acceleration races) or can it affect 100 and 200m? Also do you also suggest this for hurdles?
Hi (Fin)Apunen!
Interesting stuff! May I ask why you preferred the above particular sequence? I.e., lactate threshold training before the hill runs? Does this better suit your sport’s needs?
Thanks!
About 20 jumps in total (standing LJ, standing TJ, etc) - in the sandpit.
Cool down - 2 x 200 (tempo)
Tuesday - 300 (11,5), 250(11,3), 180m (11), 150m (10,5), 120m (10,3)
[12’]
(times on 100m in brackets)
WT: Cleans (3 x 6) - 70 kg; Bench 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 (1 rep - 110kg); Squats (2 x 6) 140 kg; Leg press (2 x 6) 300 kg; Push press - for reaction (3 x 6) 40 kg; Deadlifts (3 x 6) 100 kg; Upper body circuit.
Wednesday - Rest. Chiro and massage.
Thursday - 4 x 150 [jog, walk, jog across]
WT: Upper body.
Friday - 2 (200+200) [2’]. Both sets - first 200m RP, second 200m as fast as possible.
Saturday - 4 sets of 2 x 80m each, back to back: Sled (light), high knees, skip, run through’s.
WT: Cleans (5, 4, 3, 2, 1) 90 kg; Bench (5, 4, 3, 2, 1) 110 kg; Squats (2 x 6) 120 kg; Incline bench - free weights - 35kg each; Upperbody circuit.
Recovery during the week - Alternate - Bath (Epsom Salts) and shower.
On Friday, everything suddenly changed. Even today, the session was excellent - my athlete was in FULL control of everything he did. In rhythm, light on his feet, quick ground contact, etc. He walked back after the first 80m “run through” of the last set and asked for a time trial on the last one - 8,33 HT.
Next week will look almost the same - training Monday (speed) and Tuesday (specific 400m work); Wednesday rest; training Thursday (speed endurance) and Friday (special endurance). Saturday Tempo. BUT - all sessions not so intense as this week.
I had not choice as to plan the training as the above-mentioned. Motivation: The last 2 hard weeks before the national meetings start.
After next week, I will have to prepare the athletes every week to be able to compete on the Friday. Therefore no special endurance (I think the race will be the special endurance per week), focus on RM, speed endurance, etc.
After 3 National meetings on Fridays, National Championships the next week. Therefore no hard training after next week.
My question remains - why the lack of rhythm on the Thursday? I have no worries about a “bad day” - I know it will happen. Our attitude is to “just go through the motions” on a bad day. But why EVERY week on the day after the rest day in the middle of the week?
Any recommendations on the programme itself? Volume? Intensity? Reasons for the lack of rhythm? Not to worry about OR do I have to seriously think about the massage? Anything else?
for me this is first time I plan my training this seriously so I have to wait till the end of my 12week gpp so I can give my thoughs about it,but to your question.
as I look at it, I would have two possible ways to do my gpp 1.start with building endurance/lactate streshold base and after that build explosive strenght over it or 2.build explosive strenght and and build endurance/lactate streshold over gained explosive strenght.
as I said I dont have to give you any tested data about why I choose number 1 but here are some thoughts about it(and please if someone have any thoughts please share them)
when I build my base in three week period with training lactate streshold, overall fitness by tempo sessions and mma training. I feel alot more confortable to start hill runs. for first I have good lactate/endurance base so starting hill runs want be so hard on my system and I dont have to worry about the starting volume of the hill runs. second thing is that I feel its easier to keep the gains of the first period when I do lactate/endurance training compered to if I would first build explosive strenght and after that try to build lactate/endurance.
i quess it all comes to should I go from long to short or other way around? when I think about the competition which might include up to five, five minutes rounds, I think taking care of the lactate/endurance first and build ex.strengt on that would work better I mean if I would train hills and sprints early in gpp I would be afraid of losing those gains further in gpp when I am trying building lactate streshold/endurance base.
I had some other ideas to support my choice but I forgot them well Ill be back after my brain has cooled off.
hi tc
I’ve heard more comments about problems with rhythm from 400m runners but that’s probably because the best athletes I coached were 400m runners and towards the end of my active coaching I was only coaching 400m runners.
But I would think rhythm is vital to all events (even the throws) and it is easy to mess it up.
It’s interesting that your athletes don’t feel lack of rhythm on the Monday, which is also first track session coming off a rest day.
The difference between Monday and Thurs appears to be the Massage session on Wednesday (but presumably not on Sunday).
So on the face of it the culprit appears to be the massage.
Does your athlete get massage only once a week? I found that more massage usually meant the masseur didn’t need to go in so deep and that the athlete’s rhythm didn’t suffer. A bit like jetlag, once you’ve flown a great deal it doesn’t seem to hit you as much or (in my case now) at all.
I hope Charlie takes a look at this and puts his forensic mind to your issue of rhythm.
My experience though is that the first session back from a rest day/heavy massage is usually a battle, but by the end of the session the rhythm is restored and the next day it’s clear sailing again.
But don’t quit on the massage. Maybe bring it forward to earlier in the week. Good Massage (and chiro) is your best insurance policy against injury.
By the way sprint coach the week looks strong and the work also, quality over quantity. We’re on the same page
I have the same question KK brought up. Is this only a once a week therapy session? If so, can you get more treatment, so it isn’t as severe in one go, and, if not, could it be moved to Sat (in your program’s case)?
Have a look at the Therapy Options diagram on the Vanc 2004 DVD (and prob elsewhere). It prioritizes the therapy days based on what you’re doing and what you can afford. In any case, you should get on the hot and cold contrast showers- they’re horrible, but they work! There are threads on these beauties in the archives.
The second possible culpret might be the weights on Tues. I’d move the cleans to 3 sets of 4 and the leg press to 2 sets of 2, and drop the deads at this point, since the deads are there Tues but not Sat and the lift numbers are pretty high.
You might increase the weight for the cleans slightly after the first week through the adjusted cycle to compensate, but you’d need to make that call, based on technique, recovery, and apparent ease.
Normally, I’d think of 3 x 3 for the cleans, but I don’t want to kill the Fri bounce you’ve been getting in order to help Thurs. This might be the compromise.
In case it helps, as something about rounds was mentioned as well…
“A week before (Ben’s heats in Seoul), Waldemar had performed a deeper massage to lower Ben’s muscle tone -the proportion of fired (or contracted) muscle fibres to unfired fibres. Each warm-up and race increases the tone and the physiotherapist’s job in a multi-round meet is a tricky one: if the tone is too high for the early heats, there won’t be enough fibre left to contract for an optimal run in the finals. But if the tone is too low, the athlete won’t get enough elastic response from his muscles to make it out of the heats and into the finals. Even worse, a runner who pushes too hard with low tone risks injury”. (from Speed Trap)
No arguments there; especially (a) since this is supplementary training to your descipline and you are mainly concerned with pushing physiological systems as such and (b) if you keep in mind not to overstress the same parameters in the event it self -shift the focus as your season goes along.
The best way is the one that works for you!
You may find later on, after some time of training that you want to switch and challenge your system, but this again may not be necessary!
You should try it as it is and see how it goes!
Let us know! Good luck!
I finished…reading…to this point…in the thread , and would like some help.
Anyways, I’m in full understanding that others wish to get help as well, and hopefully my posts won’t cause problems.
Anyways, to start, I figured the best way for me to make a program is to start from scratch, and take it one step at a time. I would like to first work on GPP.
Now, from reading through this thread, I understand KK that you do a 2xGPP. Then you do a 4 week transitional phase (SPP1), and then finally a SPP2 phase. Correct me if I’m wrong?
Anyways, if it is correct, I will try following something like that. My first main competition will occur during Mid June. I wont be able to get a lot of meets until when I get to go off to college (last 5 months of high school thank God), because I’m not running under my high school coach, but can make up mock meets in place of real meets.
Also, another stipulation is that I cannot do practices on Saturday. I work that day, a 9 hour day, and as much as I would want to, I wouldnt have the energy (even though I enjoy the job and do get 2 break plus lunch), on top of the fact it would be dark by the time I come home.
So to start off, I will just make a GPP chart, and hope you and others could give me advice as to what I should put where.
GPP:
Mon:
Tues:
Wed:
Thurs:
Fri:
Sat: Rest
Sun:
I understand the high intensity/low intensity idea, and figure it would be best to have tempo (low intensity) Tues and Thurs. But also, as I learned from my last “indoor season”(mock track race), that I really need to work on endurance. And I believe in this thread somewhere, it was said GPP is where you build your endurance base. So, if that is correct, could you recommend me some things I should do on the high intensity days for this? Also, for the low intensity days, if there is something I should do besides tempo, please tell me.
Also, I plan on doing weights Mon, Wed, and Fri. And probably would do Ab work Tues and Thursday. If you recommend me to do hills, I live in flatlands, but did make a tire and rope to supplement hills, and think it it the next best thing to hills.
You need to work on endurance, but how challenging are your tempo sessions in the first place? Without the general fitness in place, the SE isn’t all that useful.
well in the search for our 54. sec 400m we have started with mixed results as mentioned we have been working on a 26/28 split in training.
in her first real 400m for a long time she went out 26.4 (13.2/13.2) 29.4 (15.3/14.1) timed on dartfish.
knowing that itll take 3-4 400m races to get that rhythm happening she was pleased with the first up run and actually split the last 100m better than the rest of the field. in saying that though the bottom bend looked good but the time indicates otherwise
her 300m split of 41.7 is well down of the set pace of 40. we are after for a 54. but the signs are there.
with a short turnaround this week before fridays 400m race we have the week planned as follows
sun- pool recovery session
mon - speed
tue - tempo
wed - rest
thur - race model work, maybe 1 x 60 or 80m at RP working onto bend
fri - 7.30-8pm race
